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Ian P
27-06-12, 21:06 PM
Having just got my first AC. Looking at third party insurance, there are 2 quotes 1 for me third party 1million and the 2nd quote for passenger liability 125k

Can someone explain the 2nd quote to me and what it actually means.

Bill Scott
27-06-12, 21:15 PM
125k is the minimum cover for a passenger

Ian P
27-06-12, 21:26 PM
But what does this cover?
thanks

newaviator
27-06-12, 22:05 PM
The 1 Million covers you if you injure someone or damage something , the 125k covers the passenger in the aircraft in case they sue you for injury following an accident.

Well I believe thats how mine works !!!

Rog
27-06-12, 23:16 PM
The 1 Million covers you if you injure someone or damage something , the 125k covers the passenger in the aircraft in case they sue you for injury following an accident.

Well I believe thats how mine works !!!

Would agree with the above having used renewed and added passenger insurance. You can up this to a million for the passenger but we chose not to

NigelJ
28-06-12, 14:23 PM
I've got passenger cover as well (at the moment to cover my instructor when he's in the back). If you are only going to fly on your own then passenger cover isn't necessary but if you crash with someone in the back they are likely to get hurt as well so it depends on whether they are likely to sue you. You could get a passenger to sign a disclaimer but that seems a bit heavy to me so if you are likely to carry passengers then get the extra cover for their benefit as much as yours.

Ian - I'm at Redlands too so hopefully will meet up sometime. When I get flying again it will be during the week.

Ian P
28-06-12, 14:43 PM
Hi Nigel, will keep a lookout for you. :)

MadamBreakneck
28-06-12, 16:01 PM
'Fraid it's not that simple. There are mandatory insurance levels (ever so complicated and my brain's gone walkabout today) see here (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?pageid=4510).

Joan

Jiggles
28-06-12, 18:31 PM
Nigel, can you please refrain from giving advice on things that you obviously are unaware, especially on the subject of insurance for god's sake.

Passenger Insurance (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/1089/regulation/5/made)

John

Ian P
28-06-12, 18:55 PM
Is all sorted now , i went with Crispin Prices quoted were 147 third party (inc QFI), Passenger is 116 & Hull ground risk is 125.

andre
28-06-12, 20:12 PM
My premium from Joint aviation went up 100% to 447.00, too high for me . The best deal I now have is with Traffords 220.00 , third party & passenger cover, no hull cover. The highest was 696 from Hayward Aviation. Pays to shop around. Andre'

Mick_Sanderson
28-06-12, 21:13 PM
I've got passenger cover as well (at the moment to cover my instructor when he's in the back). If you are only going to fly on your own then passenger cover isn't necessary but if you crash with someone in the back they are likely to get hurt as well so it depends on whether they are likely to sue you. You could get a passenger to sign a disclaimer but that seems a bit heavy to me so if you are likely to carry passengers then get the extra cover for their benefit as much as yours.

Ian - I'm at Redlands too so hopefully will meet up sometime. When I get flying again it will be during the week.


You don't need passenger insurance while under instruction, the instructor has his own insurance to cover himself in your aircraft, why pay for something you don't need until your qualified?

Ian P
28-06-12, 21:38 PM
Yes thats what i did. Held it off till i get license

Parky
28-06-12, 21:51 PM
I got my insurance straight away,the instructors insurance will cover him in the event of liability. I got hull cover so at least I could get another one if I stuff it as well being a novice pilot.i stand to be corrected but I don't think instructor insurance does that.

Parky
28-06-12, 21:59 PM
Nigel, can you please refrain from giving advice on things that you obviously are unaware, especially on the subject of insurance for god's sake.Passenger Insurance (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/1089/regulation/5/made)JohnBit harsh,I think Nigel has got enough to deal with without rollockings.If he's wrong maybe a bit of gentle friendly correction might be more tactful.

Jiggles
28-06-12, 22:32 PM
You're probably right Parky so my apologies to Nigel.
John

NigelJ
29-06-12, 12:35 PM
Apology accepted Jiggles, but I think we can refrain from comments like this on the forum - let's please keep it friendly. I am not claiming to give qualified advice (surely we can give suggestions without being shot down in flames, FFS), I was merely saying what was my situation - my instructor told me I need to have passenger insurance for him so that is what I have. I also took advice from my insurers (Traffords) as if I am not able to get a full part 2 medical by the time I pass my test I can still take a qualified pilot as a passenger and they will will then be covered. I don't have hull cover as it is not worth it for my plane. If I write it off then that's bad luck - hopefully any minor prangs will be repairable and I would rather keep the money aside for that.

Ian P
29-06-12, 13:38 PM
Jiggles, maybe change your signature.

goldrush
29-06-12, 14:15 PM
Just to add a bit to the "confusion".
My Shadow is NOT insured to carry passengers.
When it came time for my Bi-ennial last year, I queried this with both my examiner and insurers Traffords.
Examiner stated that his BMAA insurance covered him personally and him against 3rd party claims during instructional flights, not the hull, nor me, "except that maybe I could be considered a 3rd party"?.
My insurers confirmed that the examiner would not be considered as a passenger, but a flight crew member, thus no passenger insurance required as such .... Examiner is pilot in command and myself PUT

"Oh what a tangled web........"

andre
29-06-12, 15:46 PM
Surly a third party claim on you would be anything that is not you (party1) or owned by you (party2), i.e another person, or persons property. If your instructor caused damage or loss to you or your plane, house.dog. wife etc. he would be subject to a third party claim. Your instructor's comment may be true, if you where both joined at the hip!!! . If you caused an accident whilst under instruction and he was injured, than the instructors insurers would properly still be looking to you for recompense.

Andre'

Jiggles
29-06-12, 15:58 PM
As Goldrush has stated Nigel, "his BMAA insurance covered him personally" which is what I had been led to believe and so your instructor told you wrong IF he told you that you needed to insure him! You cant ask a passenger to "sign a waver", it's not valid, and by law, if you carry a passenger then they must have insurance to cover them. These are the reasons why when it comes to rules, laws and regulations "surely we can give suggestions" are at best pointless, at worst dangerously misleading. So you see I'm not apologising for what I said to you, only how I said it, and that still stands.

Ian, which signature do you think I should change and why?

Regards to you both,

John

NigelJ
29-06-12, 17:27 PM
OK -so my suggestions are dangerously misleading but you state that my instructor was wrong to tell me I had to cover him. Do you know his current insurance status? - No, neither do I. Perhaps he is wrong and is covered, in which case i don't see why he told me otherwise, but at the end of the day I'm the one flying and for all I know he could have let his cover lapse. In which case do I say "tough mate" you're not covered if we crash? Maybe I care too much but I don't like the idea of anyone having to suffer as a result of my actions, whatever the cause or reason, so for my peace of mind anyone in the back seat is covered.

Yes it would save some cash at the moment as he's the only one who will be flying with me, but it's my choice to cover him anyway. I don't make assumptions about other people's insurance cover regarding driving my cars and I take the same view with my plane. Yes it's a legal minefield out there and as far as I'm concerned you should talk to your insurers - they are the specialists.

NOTE: For future reference anything I post on this forum is my opinion and everyone can take it or leave it. As for this thread I think it's time to move on to something else.

Jiggles
29-06-12, 18:25 PM
If he's a BMAA instructor Nigel, he is insured with them. But as you said, nuffs enough x

John ;-)

VinceG
29-06-12, 19:32 PM
I know someone who's JOB it is to wriggle out of paying claims.

I hate insurance companies with a passion. Get the minimum in my opinion.

MadamBreakneck
01-07-12, 11:30 AM
If he's a BMAA instructor Nigel, he is insured with them. But as you said, nuffs enough x

John ;-)

I've emailed BMAA for a definitive answer on this, but I believe your statement quoted is very wrong.

To my knowledge, BMAA does not insure instructors nor examiners. It is also a matter for instructor (or flight examiner) and student to agree whose insurance covers any flight. My own policy is that I insure student and third party on school aircraft (including solo students*) but a private owner insures for instructional flights on their own aircraft.

The moral of the story is check the insurance policy - carefully.

I'll get back on this when I've had my reply from the BMAA.

Joan

PS. Already had a reply, within minutes and on a Sunday too. BMAA's insurances do not cover instruction, that is a matter for the instructor (or flight examiner) and student.

PPS. * Note also that a student flying solo is Pilot in Command and is not personally covered by my instructor's 'Student Pilot' cover, though they get the third party and hull cover. They're only personally covered while Pilot under Training.

PPPS. If you've got life insurance to keep spouse and kids happy, then you should check whether you are covered while crew (including as PUT) in a microlight. There is a company advertises such cover in MF (http://www.microlightflying.org.uk/magazine/mf2011/mf0211/view-february-2011/).

MadamBreakneck
01-07-12, 12:43 PM
...
When it came time for my Bi-ennial last year, I queried this with both my examiner and insurers Traffords.
Examiner stated that his BMAA insurance covered him personally ... etc

The hour's instructional flight(s) for revalidation of an NPPL are not, not, a test and do not need an examiner, any microlight instructor is sufficient (or several different ones for shorter flights)

The person who signs of the licence revalidation is an R-examiner, but is not necesarily an instructor or even a pilot
See here - http://www.bmaa.org/upload/U243408_revalidation_of_ratings.pdf


"Oh what a tangled web........"

Indeed, but...

Unless like me you instruct, examine or pontificate, all you need to know is which rules apply to you as an individual and you can ignore the rest. For most new NPPL(M)s it's simply when the anniversary of the certificate of test is, and whether this is a clear year or a sign-off year.

Only if you are one of those clever souls who fly on lots of different ratings or licences do you have to remember the rules for each of them, like [this] (http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=77766).

Joan

NB. other countries have other rules.

goldrush
01-07-12, 16:47 PM
Sorry, Joan and all, I guess I suffered a Senior Moment, or at the very least suffered a form of dyslexicia... as you say an Examiner is not required for a bi-enniel, only for the GST if the rating has lapsed..