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Thread: MTOW 600kg ?

  1. #1
    Airfield Ops johnymelad's Avatar
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    MTOW 600kg ?

    Can anyone explain if its possible to fly a CT or C42 up to 600kg MTOW ?

    I've heard it can be done with some extra training but is it really that simple ?
    Flying... The only thing I do in life where I have to behave like a grown-up.


  2. #2
    Captain Bob T's Avatar
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    How would you give the aircraft extra training so that it can carry extra weight?
    If it is a microlight registered as such in the UK then 600kg would be illegal.


  3. #3
    Test Pilot Paul Dewhurst's Avatar
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    Flight design do a 600kg MTOW version of the CT called the CTLS ( 7 registered in the UK) - and with an appropriate license ( not NPPLM) you can fly it. There is a 540kg C42 varient for the LSA market, but not sure if its approved for UK.

    You can't fly a 450/472.5kg microlight version at higher weights, and can't fly a non microlight with a microlight only license.

    If you have a microlight license you can get some cross credit that reduces the training minima to get a EASA LAPL or PPLA. Just now the cheapest route is to add an SSEA rating to the NPPLM - circa 7 hours training, which is effectively being phased out and replaced by the EASA LAPL - but until April next year a LAPL can be swapped to from a NPPL SSEA by a simple paperwork exercise.

    paul

    Paul
    Last edited by Paul Dewhurst; 29-09-14 at 16:38 PM.

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  5. #4
    Co-Pilot trevorlane's Avatar
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    A lot of aircraft are have a actual MTOW greater than the rating that your licence allows. My own BRAKO Gyro if flown in Europe; there are plenty in Italy; have an MTOW of 450kg. If you fly exactly the same aircraft in the USA or Australia it is rated as 500kg. Exactly the same machine, different licence restrictions.

    Some aircraft however will have different versions for each weight. Do not assume it is just a licence restriction.


  6. #5
    Test Pilot Paul Dewhurst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trevorlane View Post
    A lot of aircraft are have a actual MTOW greater than the rating that your licence allows. My own BRAKO Gyro if flown in Europe; there are plenty in Italy; have an MTOW of 450kg. If you fly exactly the same aircraft in the USA or Australia it is rated as 500kg. Exactly the same machine, different licence restrictions.

    Some aircraft however will have different versions for each weight. Do not assume it is just a licence restriction.
    its not so much a license restriction per se but rather a classification and certification one. Once you step out of annex2 you need full EASA certification for production and design. Gyros have an annex2 limit of 550kg, so that's an EU max - but some countries on a national level have a 450cap so they can operate within microlight regs.

    For microlights the limit across EU is 450/472.5kg. You can go heavier within annex2 if you are a 51% homebuilt, but if not you pop into the EASA regime, which is very expensive and restrictive. Not all EU countries have a homebuild system outside of microlights though.

    So a good mish mash of rules and regs!

    Paul


  7. #6
    thebarb
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    With the recent news item about a Weight increase on the cards














    AFTER the BMAA-CAA meeting about increasing the microlight weight limit to 600kg, the signs are that an increase could be on the cards. Leading the talks for the BMAA were Chief Executive Geoff Weighell and Paul Dewhurst. The BMAA team proposed that aircraft should be available ready to fly using the existing manufacturing approval for microlights extended to 600kg, with operation, maintenance and licensing based on the established microlight/permit to fly systems.


    “The CAA are reported to be very positive about the proposal, and acknowledged the desirability of having such aircraft available in the UK, and to enable UK manufacturers to produce such aircraft for domestic and export sales,” according to Paul Dewhurst in the statement put out electronically on the 15th May 2018. “It is early days, but we were encouraged by the reception. Next steps are that the CAA will form a project group, including the BMAA and LAA, to consider all aspects, moving to wider consultation.”

    So the big question is : Will all Previously licenced Microlight Pilots get 'Grandfather rights' to fly 600kg microlights or will there be a 'conversion process' if this gets rubber stamped?.......... I am guessing that this won't be a simple case of a 390kg microlight that was allowed to be 'upgraded to 450kg being given a further concession to be operated at 600kg?

    I look forward to the updates from the likes of Paul Dewhurst, this could be a real 'double edge sword' for microlighting.




  8. #7
    Co-Pilot Keveng's Avatar
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    Im Sure Paul will Be along to clarify , what you have is two issues , Pilots Licencing and aircraft limitations,as i understand it, the microlight licence may just be moved to allow existing pilots to fly at the higher weight provided there is no significant change in the flying characteristics ie weight and balance calcs etc
    Aircraft on the other hand will not automatically be uprated to 600 Kg from the existing MTOW unless the manufacturer uprates the TADS and HADS and confirms the aircraft conforms to Sec s with the higher weights. so a 390 machine will stay a 390 machine and a 450 will stay a 450 till such time the manufacturer says its fine to fly subject to all or no mods.

    MY 2 Zim cents worth
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  9. #8
    Captain andy dixon's Avatar
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    My thoughts entirely
    disclaimer....as per 2010 European libel act....these are my thoughts only and may not represent the thoughts or actions of any person /company/group/manufacturer named in this article/Internet posting


  10. #9
    Captain Roger Mole's Avatar
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    France is still dragging its feet on this one, the reason being that although it would like to see an increase in the weight limit, it wants to retain its declarative, minimal official oversight permit system. The 'official' line is that if more oversight is proposed because of the weight increase eg along the lines of the UK, it would prefer to stay where it is and keep the 450kg limit. This was the position adopted by the last FFPLUM president who, quite honestly IMO, left a lot to be desired in terms of leadership and I doubt that the inspirational Dominique Mereuze who he replaced when the latter died of cancer would have done the same.

    My own view is that 'overweight' aircraft have been flying for 20 years under the current regime without any airworthiness incidents as a result of their being overweight, so why should there need to be any regime change just because you are recognising the reality and regularising it. And moreover, many of these aircraft have been used for training, making the need to regularise them even more urgent.

    As an interesting aside, my insurance states that the insurance is invalid if an accident occurs when flown overweight but that a claim will only be denied if the accident is as a result of its being overweight. So with a nod and a wink, even the insurers here are recognising what's going on and doing what they can to support pilots.

    Somehow though I think France will go for 550kg unless there's a wholesale move across Europe to go for 600kg. This change is long overdue in my opinion.

    Re 'upweighting' - my opinion is that all 1st generation ulms/microlights such as Thrusters, AX3s, X-Airs etc plus 'old' flexwings will remain at their current weights and will not be upweighted. This will only be allowed for later designs such as the Savannah, Guepard, Citius, Skyranger and many many more on this side of the water + modern more highly powered flexwings where the manufacturers already have a higher weight limit in place for the design or where they can demonstrate that the higher weight limit can be applied by default without design changes or where it can be applied after specific manufacturer approved mods have been applied.
    Last edited by Roger Mole; 17-05-18 at 10:29 AM.


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    Captain MadamBreakneck's Avatar
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    ... and nobody will fly 600kg 'microlights' overweight? Oh no, that would never happen...



    Back to just bimbling

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