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  1. #11
    Co-Pilot Muttley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Nelson View Post
    Bit of a moot point seeing as a UK SSDR doesn't have any form of airworthiness paperwork, it is UK registered which doesn't a licence ( paperwork ) to show it being recognisably airworthy on paper.
    Wasn't certain what you meant there Keith but the Certificate of Registration is mainly to provide a point of contact and a method of supplying safety information. The person named on the CofR does not need to be the legal owner and it does not imply airworthiness.


  2. #12
    Wannabe Pilot Asgard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Barker View Post
    Seems to me that this [ http://www.ecologique-solidaire.gouv...nefs-etrangers ] means that in France at least, a UK SSDR, being a licensed UK aircraft thatís amateur-built, is welcome for up to a 28-day stay and no licensing cost.

    The page you link to plainly states..."hold a flight permit in the State of origin and respect the limits"

    SSDR has no Permit, so NO you can't fly it in France


  3. #13
    Captain Gentreau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asgard View Post
    The page you link to plainly states..."hold a flight permit in the State of origin and respect the limits"

    SSDR has no Permit, so NO you can't fly it in France
    I disagree. "autorisation de vol" is not necessarily a permit but can mean just an "authorisation to fly".
    Since an SSDR is authorised to fly in UK airspace and if it meets the other criteria for a "ULM" (single engine < 100HP, stall speed < 65kph, etc) then I would say you are legal to fly it.
    The three most useless things in aviation:
    • The air above you.
    • The runway behind you.
    • The fuel in the bowser.


    The great thing about twin engined aircraft is, if one engine fails, the other engine always has just enough power to get you to the scene of the crash.

    Semper specto in clara parte vitae.

    .


  4. #14
    Airfield Ops Christopher Barker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gentreau View Post
    I disagree. "autorisation de vol" is not necessarily a permit but can mean just an "authorisation to fly".
    Since an SSDR is authorised to fly in UK airspace and if it meets the other criteria for a "ULM" (single engine < 100HP, stall speed < 65kph, etc) then I would say you are legal to fly it.
    Interesting. Yes, seems likely. So I guess at the French end a UK SSDR is probably OK in practice.

    But there’s certainly a problem at the UK end. S33 (1) of the ANO says an aircraft must not fly without a CoA. S33(2) exempts single-seat microlights for flights that begin and end in the UK and don’t pass over another country. If you’re flying to France, that exemption doesn’t apply to you, and therefore you’re guilty in the UK of flying without a permit. Ditto, you’ll be guilty on your return flight. Which is what the OP is saying.

    Great initiative, OP.


  5. #15
    Wannabe Pilot Asgard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gentreau View Post
    I disagree. "autorisation de vol" is not necessarily a permit but can mean just an "authorisation to fly".
    Since an SSDR is authorised to fly in UK airspace and if it meets the other criteria for a "ULM" (single engine < 100HP, stall speed < 65kph, etc) then I would say you are legal to fly it.

    Had a change of mind since this then

    I think the answer is no, you can't.
    According to the legislation, it is the permit to fly which confers the right to overfly french territory.
    Since an SSDR by definition, has no permit, that would infer that you cannot fly it to France.



  6. #16
    Captain MadamBreakneck's Avatar
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    Am I wrong, is it really only in this country (UK) that people have long and detailed discussions about what the law forbids, rather than how it is possible to do whatever it is people want within the bounds of whatever it is the authorities will let them get away with?

    Anyway, I know one can fly SSDR to in France - it's been done.



    Back to just bimbling in the TST.

    No longer instructing - just pontificating.


  7. #17
    Co-Pilot Antoni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadamBreakneck View Post
    Am I wrong, is it really only in this country (UK) that people have long and detailed discussions about what the law forbids, rather than how it is possible to do whatever it is people want within the bounds of whatever it is the authorities will let them get away with?
    Absolutely.

    UK subjects are world masters of at least one thing: the gold plating of rules.

    In all the hobbies I'm involved with it's always there in spades from a portion of the partakers. It really is.

    I'm not casting any nasturtiums on anyone in this thread; it's a good read.

    Seems to me so far that it would be perfectly legal to fly an SSDR to France but flying it back is what's under legal question.
    "The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - G.B.S.


  8. #18
    Captain Gentreau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antoni View Post
    Absolutely.

    UK subjects are world masters of at least one thing: the gold plating of rules.

    .......
    I have to agree. One reason I think that many Brits have such a bad image of the laws "handed down" from Brussels in the past is that often the UK implemented them fully and more.
    The French for example, very often shrugged and said "maybe, one day...."
    The three most useless things in aviation:
    • The air above you.
    • The runway behind you.
    • The fuel in the bowser.


    The great thing about twin engined aircraft is, if one engine fails, the other engine always has just enough power to get you to the scene of the crash.

    Semper specto in clara parte vitae.

    .

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  10. #19
    Captain Gentreau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asgard View Post
    Had a change of mind since this then
    Sorry old man, don't understand your banter !

    Who are you quoting here ?
    I think the answer is no, you can't.
    According to the legislation, it is the permit to fly which confers the right to overfly french territory.
    Since an SSDR by definition, has no permit, that would infer that you cannot fly it to France.
    The three most useless things in aviation:
    • The air above you.
    • The runway behind you.
    • The fuel in the bowser.


    The great thing about twin engined aircraft is, if one engine fails, the other engine always has just enough power to get you to the scene of the crash.

    Semper specto in clara parte vitae.

    .


  11. #20
    Airfield Ops Christopher Barker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antoni View Post
    Seems to me so far that it would be perfectly legal to fly an SSDR to France but flying it back is what's under legal question.
    Really, why?

    The SSDR exemption is valid for flights starting and ending in the UK. If youíre not exempt for a flight arriving in the UK, why do you think you would be when youíre departing the UK?


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