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  1. #41
    Captain MadamBreakneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Mole View Post
    Chicken or egg Joan?...
    Hi Roger

    That's what I thought I was saying. Need a chicken-like bird to lay the egg that the first chicken came from. The first Ultralight class I'm aware of was the 1930s class exemplified by the Luton Minor and its peers. That's why our forefathers in the UK had to come up with a different term which they chose to be "Minimum Aircraft", only later did they become "Microlight Aircraft".

    My point was that as the aircraft class named "microlight" creeps beyond the original idea of minimum aircraft, then new classes of aircraft are born (laid?) to fulfill the role, namely sub-70kg "nanolights" and SSDR. My prediction was that we'll end up with some sort of 2-seat 'instructional' semi-SSDR subclass at the light end while the heavier end grows into what we still call VLA.
    Who knows, they might even introduce a relaxed licensing regime on the basis of limited airspeed and range

    Back to the future, eh? Meanwhile, I'm glad to read you are enjoying your touring.


    Back to just bimbling


  2. #42
    Captain Dave Morton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Mole View Post
    Let's get real and stop being victims.

    Of course it's the latter and everyone knows it to be so. That's why the weight limit is being increased FFS. It should have been addressed years ago but ULM/microlight pilots are not very good at demanding what is right, especially you lot in the UK. All the while you accept being told that you are privileged to use your licences instead of it being your right it will remain that way.

    It's evident that over the years as 2-seat group A aircraft have become ever more expensive to own and operate that there has been a growing demand for more capable ULMs/microlights. And manufacturers can't be blamed for developing products to meet that demand, especially as engine technology has improved. I would suggest to even the most jaundiced UK bureaucrat that a Rotax 914 has come some way beyond a Robin and so have the aircraft on which it can be mounted.

    But regulations have not been updated in acknowledgement of this, so it's the stupid lawmakers who have created the problems by not acknowledging that this is 2018 and not 1918 or even 1978. And shame on them for creating the conditions which have allowed many good people in recent years to have been subject to ruthless insurance companies, in the UK especially, avoiding paying out 'because the aircraft took off overweight' when incidents have occurred which had no connection with aircraft weight and were not their fault.

    Please please stop keep doing what you are told and start demanding what you are entitled to - which should include respect for starters.

    As far as I'm aware the upgrade to 600kg will only apply to new aircraft, however the CT for instance has been approved for older aircraft to upgrade to 600kg via their manufacturer (after a certain production year) however this does not solve the problem with other types and the issues they have, unless their manufacturers follow suit then it will always be down to the PIC, for the meantime at least...


  3. #43
    Captain Roger Mole's Avatar
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    Yep, you're right Dave but at least it's a step in the right direction to deal with an issue that's been an elephant in the room for far too long and should have been raised by the overseeing bodies years ago. I and pilots like me knew that our aircraft were 'overweight' when we bought them and if it means that we have to pay for some small mods or whatever to 'legalise' our status at the new higher limits, so be it. You could argue that we brought it upon ourselves.

    That being said, I find it difficult to believe that aircraft such as my Savannah have not been designed to fly at a MTOW that's less than empty weight + 2 average pax + full fuel, whatever that comes out at, so I don't envisage many problems for such aircraft.

    Naturally the 'upweighting' should not include existing models that were made to and do conform to existing lower weight limits (eg Weedhopper, X-Air, Thruster etc) and manufacturers must be required to confirm that newer 'overweight' designs are safe and airworthy when being flown within the new higher limits unmodded or with specified factory designed mods to make them so.

    I think that I've covered what I wanted to say but I'm in a bit of a hurry this morning....


  4. #44
    Co-Pilot Peter Twissell's Avatar
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    "2 average pax"
    A quick google shows the average weight for a human is 72.7kg. It is we, the oversize Europeans (average 70.8kg) who are limiting our own fuel capacity! As for UK males (average 84 kg!), what can I say - lay off the pies !
    An average Asian pilot and passenger at 57.7 kg each never have to worry about it.
    G-BZNP Still not dead


  5. #45
    Co-Pilot Randombloke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Twissell View Post
    "2 average pax"
    A quick google shows the average weight for a human is 72.7kg. It is we, the oversize Europeans (average 70.8kg) who are limiting our own fuel capacity! As for UK males (average 84 kg!), what can I say - lay off the pies !
    An average Asian pilot and passenger at 57.7 kg each never have to worry about it.
    A CAA adult is 86kg, if your aircraft design is a two seater this is the minimum number they will accept for pilot or passenger under Section S.
    Steve U.
    PG, HG & microlights
    "Weekend bimbler, day to day car driver & genuinely undeserving Southern oik who has never done anything of any worth"


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