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  1. #1
    New Member Dozer's Avatar
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    Question Insurance problems on the horizon?

    Hi just wanted to see if anyone else has tried to get a new insurance quote on a Flexwing Microlight, as our Aerotow club approached Sydney Charles and they have sent this response!! and am now going to have to find another insurer for my trike as well!!

    Hi ***



    We are unable to offer you a quote for the Tug at this time. For the last 15 years aviation insurance has been in what is termed a ‘soft market.’ So many businesses entered the market to offer facilities that there was over-capacity which forced prices down. Unfortunately, this has now changed dramatically. A large number of worldwide disasters resulted in billions of dollars in claims, impacting on the whole of the insurance market. This started a reduction in capacity as insurance companies looked to shed less profitable business areas - aviation insurance being one of these areas. Due to their continuing bad results numerous insurance companies have pulled out of the aviation market so far during 2018 and unfortunately our Underwriter who we used to write our policies have also withdrawn from the market therefore we are unable to offer you terms for the Tug.


    I phoned them and apparently its only Flex-wings and Gyro's that the underwriters have refused to cover! and they said that 8 underwriters have now stopped their aviation business.

    going to try Crispin Spears, but wanted to see if anyone knows if any other insurers are not covering flex to same me the leg work?


  2. #2
    Captain Dave Morton's Avatar
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    Just re-insured with Crispin, been with them for 10yrs, policy price has dropped each year due to no claims being made, my Quik is insured for 20k @ £600

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    Dozer (07-11-18)


  4. #3
    Co-Pilot Randombloke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dozer View Post
    Hi just wanted to see if anyone else has tried to get a new insurance quote on a Flexwing Microlight, as our Aerotow club approached Sydney Charles and they have sent this response!! and am now going to have to find another insurer for my trike as well!!

    Hi ***



    We are unable to offer you a quote for the Tug at this time. For the last 15 years aviation insurance has been in what is termed a ‘soft market.’ So many businesses entered the market to offer facilities that there was over-capacity which forced prices down. Unfortunately, this has now changed dramatically. A large number of worldwide disasters resulted in billions of dollars in claims, impacting on the whole of the insurance market. This started a reduction in capacity as insurance companies looked to shed less profitable business areas - aviation insurance being one of these areas. Due to their continuing bad results numerous insurance companies have pulled out of the aviation market so far during 2018 and unfortunately our Underwriter who we used to write our policies have also withdrawn from the market therefore we are unable to offer you terms for the Tug.


    I phoned them and apparently its only Flex-wings and Gyro's that the underwriters have refused to cover! and they said that 8 underwriters have now stopped their aviation business.

    going to try Crispin Spears, but wanted to see if anyone knows if any other insurers are not covering flex to same me the leg work?
    What sort of insurance are you trying to get?

    If it's an aerotow syndicate in the UK, then 3rd party wise, the tug is insured for £5 million. So, I have to assume you're looking for hull only as an add on.

    My experience is that some insurers are reluctant to offer hull insurance on its own. Some insurers are reluctant to offer fully comp (3rd party + hull) insurance on SSDRs.

    So, without knowing if the tug is permit (and if permit, the majority of tugs are too old to be worth hull insuring) or SSDR, the picture is not complete. Tugs are mostly XL-R or Fun 18, with one FoxTug ATM. You can tow with AX2000, and Quantum/GT450, but the last two are not easy.

    Crispin Speers were doing flex as of May when I last re-insured.
    Steve U.
    PG, HG & microlights
    "Weekend bimbler, day to day car driver & genuinely undeserving Southern oik who has never done anything of any worth"

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    Dozer (07-11-18)


  6. #4
    New Member Dozer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Morton View Post
    Just re-insured with Crispin, been with them for 10yrs, policy price has dropped each year due to no claims being made, my Quik is insured for 20k @ £600
    Hi Dave.
    is that including betterment?
    thanks for giving me some hope,
    will give them a call.


  7. #5
    New Member Dozer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randombloke View Post
    What sort of insurance are you trying to get?

    If it's an aerotow syndicate in the UK, then 3rd party wise, the tug is insured for £5 million. So, I have to assume you're looking for hull only as an add on.

    My experience is that some insurers are reluctant to offer hull insurance on its own. Some insurers are reluctant to offer fully comp (3rd party + hull) insurance on SSDRs.

    So, without knowing if the tug is permit (and if permit, the majority of tugs are too old to be worth hull insuring) or SSDR, the picture is not complete. Tugs are mostly XL-R or Fun 18, with one FoxTug ATM. You can tow with AX2000, and Quantum/GT450, but the last two are not easy.

    Crispin Speers were doing flex as of May when I last re-insured.
    Hi Steve
    its for the CAC new Fox Tug, we are going to ask the BHPA and see if they can do anything as well.
    The fox can only be SSDR as you know so that may be a hurdle, but the tug will have to have a permit inspection to comply with BHPA rules.

    Cheers
    Rob


  8. #6
    Airfield Ops Diyan's Avatar
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    Based on my recent personal experience, I strongly recommend Visicover. As a newly qualified pilot with around 40 hours in total I paid £640 for £16k's worth Skyranger Classic, including aircraft loss or damage, full hull cover, third party and passenger liability, personal accident cover and all the bells and whistles. I doubt I could have done any better elsewhere. I hope this helps.

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    Dozer (07-11-18)


  10. #7
    Captain Dave Morton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dozer View Post
    Hi Dave.
    is that including betterment?
    thanks for giving me some hope,
    will give them a call.
    Yes it includes betterment, I believe crispin now offer this as standard when insuring fully comp but probably better to ask

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    Dozer (07-11-18)


  12. #8
    New Member Dozer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Morton View Post
    Yes it includes betterment, I believe crispin now offer this as standard when insuring fully comp but probably better to ask
    Hi Dave
    Have spoke to them today and they can insure, just got to wait and see what the quote is!!


  13. #9
    Co-Pilot Randombloke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dozer View Post
    Hi Steve
    its for the CAC new Fox Tug, we are going to ask the BHPA and see if they can do anything as well.
    The fox can only be SSDR as you know so that may be a hurdle, but the tug will have to have a permit inspection to comply with BHPA rules.
    It may have to have an inspection for BHPA rules but no one will be able to issue it with a permit to fly. This may sound like nit picking but it is important, as any BMAA inspector asked to inspect it will be doing so outside of the BMAA insurance cover for inspectors, as Geoff Weighell will tell you. BHPA insurance, on the other hand, will cover any BHPA mandated Tech Manual inspection, but the BHPA can't issue permits to fly.

    Marc was talking about an extension to get hull available on the BHPA 3rd party as a top up. However, I was led to believe it's some way off.

    Crispin Speers wouldn't sell me hull only on my Quantum, had it been the sole aircraft I was trying to insure, but they did sell it to me as I already had fully comp on another shared aircraft with my syndicate partner.

    I'm going to guess between £450 and £600, but you may be paying twice for the 3rd party liability. I'm guessing the hull only component of fully comp is about £280, based on the hull insurance I have.
    Steve U.
    PG, HG & microlights
    "Weekend bimbler, day to day car driver & genuinely undeserving Southern oik who has never done anything of any worth"


  14. #10
    New Member Dozer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randombloke View Post
    It may have to have an inspection for BHPA rules but no one will be able to issue it with a permit to fly. This may sound like nit picking but it is important, as any BMAA inspector asked to inspect it will be doing so outside of the BMAA insurance cover for inspectors, as Geoff Weighell will tell you. BHPA insurance, on the other hand, will cover any BHPA mandated Tech Manual inspection, but the BHPA can't issue permits to fly.

    Marc was talking about an extension to get hull available on the BHPA 3rd party as a top up. However, I was led to believe it's some way off.

    Crispin Speers wouldn't sell me hull only on my Quantum, had it been the sole aircraft I was trying to insure, but they did sell it to me as I already had fully comp on another shared aircraft with my syndicate partner.

    I'm going to guess between £450 and £600, but you may be paying twice for the 3rd party liability. I'm guessing the hull only component of fully comp is about £280, based on the hull insurance I have.
    Hi Steve
    I have broached the subject of the permit situation with the insurance company, the CAA and BHPA.
    Under the CAA ANO regulations a permit is mandatory for all aircraft used for Aerotowing, but as its SSDR it cannot hold a permit, but the CAA and BHPA will accept and annual permit inspection as long as the records are kept.
    This was the response from Ian Currer

    As a deregulated aircraft the Foxtug cannot hold part K (aerotowing) of the Section S certification. However the BHPA do require that the tug
    conforms to identical requirements regarding the release mechanism.
    Although the aircraft is not permitted, the BHPA require the completion of an annual check and maintenance schedule.

    the insurance company are happy to insure as long as we keep within the BHPA/CAA regulations. the BMAA have nothing to do with this, but fair play to them, Geoff has agreed to treat all microlights used solely for Aerotow groups as single owner so no need for all members to be BMAA

    The current Malvern Foxtug is flying under and exemption but Ian Currer is working with the CAA to give type approval for the new Aerotow Foxtug so if there are any more sold it will save the CAA and the BHPA time and money.

    Marc has not got back to us on the BHPA insurance but i wont hold my breath.

    the offer for you to come and train and tug is still there

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