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  1. #181
    Captain Randombloke's Avatar
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    When the final insolvency paperwork is done, someone should get and post it here or post a link to it.

    There will be very little for the creditors, there very rarely is in solvency proceedings. Part of the reason why is the rates charged by the people doing the work.

    As a creditor of Setanta I received paperwork showing people being a paid a range of hourly rates between 960/hour and 140/hour. I got 1.4p in the in settlement for what I was owed.

    As a creditor of Speedferries, I was told I'd get nothing, but I'd bought the advance tickets with my credit card, so they refunded me and they copped for the lot.

    If anyone has the paperwork or a link to the proceedings please post it.

    If there is no IP with the sale then it's not worth much, even with the IP you have approvals to get, if you haven't got them.
    Steve U.
    PG, HG & microlights
    "Weekend bimbler, day to day car driver & genuinely undeserving Southern oik who has never done anything of any worth"


  2. #182
    Wannabe Pilot Trident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randombloke View Post
    If there is no IP with the sale then it's not worth much, even with the IP you have approvals to get, if you haven't got them.
    From what I was told, the A1 approval was going to remain valid for a short while so it could hopefully be transferred to a new owner. Whether that will actually happen or how long it would be kept valid for I don't know, but it could give a new owner a fighting chance of keeping the brand/supply of parts alive.


  3. #183
    Captain renmure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Nelson View Post

    What hasn't been made clear is what exactly is being sold on, in the paraphenalia sent out to interested parties there isn't any mention of design plans or manufacturing plans so from that I am led to think that the manufacturing documents aren't part of the sale.

    The question is, has someone already purchased the design rights of the P&M designs or are they being retained by the previous owners under intellectual property rights?

    It all seems very strange that the words "preferred bidders" are used instead of the words "highest bidders" Wouldn't it be in the best interests of the previous owners to ask for the highest bid to be accepted?

    Preferred bidder status is best thought about in simple terms. If you are selling your house you may have a few interested parties. You may have cash buyer with no chain making the lowest offer. You may have the highest offer from someone needing a mortgage and having their own house to sell. Your preferred bidder may end up as a compromise of amount offered, timescales involved and conditions applied.

    The IP thing is likely to be fairly standard and in this instance will be one of the main company assets (that's making a host of fairly safe assumptions about who came up with the designs and their contract status and business relationship with their employer at the time on inception)

    As a flexy flier I'm disappointed about how it's all gone for P&M. I think they struggled to provide any realistic, financially viable upgrade path for owners so that the "next thing" was significantly better or more desireable than whatever existing owners had and so allowing a flow of new sales. I've had my Quik 912S for 9 years now. I could be described as having more money than sense (due to little sense rather than lots of money) and happily upgrade cars, tv's, computer stuff, hi-tec stuff etc on an ongoing basis to get the next "best thing." I've never had any temptation to look at a PulseR or HyperR and even try to justify the upgrade cost of 30/40/50k for something that is such a small incremental improvement in the case of the HypeR or, well.. I've no idea what the low bar threshold for sense is for splashing out on the PulseR.


  4. #184
    Test Pilot Paul Dewhurst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trident View Post
    From what I was told, the A1 approval was going to remain valid for a short while so it could hopefully be transferred to a new owner. Whether that will actually happen or how long it would be kept valid for I don't know, but it could give a new owner a fighting chance of keeping the brand/supply of parts alive.
    as someone just in the process of getting this approval for Skyranger production , the A8-1 production approval is about the premises ( stores, working areas, offices demarcation etc), staff and their roles / individual competencies, and subcontractor control and quality processes.

    as the staff have all gone, and any buyer is highly unlikely to keep everything at Manton, the approval is pretty much worthless. Just an interesting template.

    paul

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  6. #185
    Co-Pilot thearb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Watson View Post
    Generally speaking "preferred bidder" is used because it may be that they don't want to accept the highest bid (this it quite usual, nothing to do with P&M). The bidder may take time to raise the funds, or be thought to be unreliable in some way - the administrator has to do the best for the creditors which might mean accepting a bid from someone who they know can and will pay promptly (the creditors won't get anything until the sale happens) even if it's a bit lower than another.
    Other factors could be whether or not the prospective buyers intend to carry on trading, or sell off some of the business, and so on.
    Incidentally the interests of the previous owners don't come into it - they aren't getting the money unless by some miracle it can be sold for more than it owes to creditors...
    spot on. As in any major transaction, like a house, it's not always about the highest bidder, anybody can wave non-binding high offers around and then retreat (and often do).

    It's about deliverability.
    Skyranger G-PAWZ


  7. #186
    Wannabe Pilot Trident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Dewhurst View Post
    as someone just in the process of getting this approval for Skyranger production , the A8-1 production approval is about the premises ( stores, working areas, offices demarcation etc), staff and their roles / individual competencies, and subcontractor control and quality processes.

    as the staff have all gone, and any buyer is highly unlikely to keep everything at Manton, the approval is pretty much worthless. Just an interesting template.

    paul
    Good luck with your approval application. You sound like an ideal candidate to take over some of the P&M activities then?


  8. #187
    Captain Roger Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trident View Post
    Good luck with your approval application. You sound like an ideal candidate to take over some of the P&M activities then?
    Ref my post of a couple of weeks or so ago...


  9. #188
    Test Pilot Paul Dewhurst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Mole View Post
    Ref my post of a couple of weeks or so ago...
    Thanks for the vote of confidence - but plenty on our plate with what we are doing - and we lack the spare 2-300k to get P&M up and running again..!

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  11. #189
    Captain Roger Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Dewhurst View Post
    Thanks for the vote of confidence - but plenty on our plate with what we are doing - and we lack the spare 2-300k to get P&M up and running again..!
    The cheque is in the post


  12. #190
    Captain Dave Morton's Avatar
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    From FB, hopefully this comes off....

    P&M has new owner

    Barring mishaps, P&M should have a new owner within days: Roy Steptoe, the owner of Caernarfon Airport.

    “I have made a bid, and will be visiting the company next week to check exactly what’s in stock,” Roy told Microlight Flying magazine.

    “If I’m happy with that, I’ll be the new owner. The first step is to make sure we keep existing aircraft flying and all the owners happy, then to resume production of aircraft.”


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