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  1. #1
    Airfield Ops Asgard's Avatar
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    UK regulation , V Rest of the world

    From PM Thread:
    Agreed - we should start a new thread to discuss the merits or otherwise of UK regulation and that in other locations.

    So here it is:

    I'll start with my pessimistic (or realistic depending on your opinion) view, that the push to 600kg microlights whilst workable in other countries will in the UK only serve to bring more regulation, with little actual benefit for those outside the industry.

    Rather than finding a way to make existing restraints cover new developments the UK De Facto method is to create a new restraint, a new set of paperwork and a new income stream.


  2. #2
    Co-Pilot jetlag's Avatar
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    600kg is not accepted in France

    JUNE 2019 "NEW REGULATIONS IN FRANCE"

    MTOW

    flexwing std mono 300kg dual 450kg

    fixed std mono 330kg dual 500kg

    gyro std mono 330kg dual 500kg

    heli std mono 330kg dual 500kg

    extras permit plus

    parachute solo 15kg dual 25kg
    floats solo 30kg dual 45kg
    float+chute solo 45kg dual 70kg


    therefore a fixed wing with floats and parachute MTOW 570kg

    Craft at 600kg will no longer be classed as microlights (ulm) in France and permission must be requested prior to entry.

    I find curious, that a fixed wing with chute and floats is considered safe at a MTOW of 570kg but in standard format wheels and no parachute the weight restriction is 500kg. Same machine, same structure but different limits. Not everything here is perfect eh?
    IMG_0774.jpg IMG_0782 (1).jpg

    Sorry photos are on their side can't for the life in me figure out how to turn them around.Turn them on my computer and "bing" still on their side when uploaded
    Last edited by jetlag; 10-07-19 at 07:52 AM. Reason: Last sentence
    F-JRIB LF1751 Corme Ecluse

    Today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday.

    Phil.


  3. #3
    Captain Gentreau's Avatar
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    The new French regulations are also available in English ...

    microlight2019_1.pdf
    The three most useless things in aviation:
    • The air above you.
    • The runway behind you.
    • The fuel in the bowser.


    Rule #1: Always tie your aircraft to the largest heaviest object available. The planet Earth meets these requirements and is readily available in all locations.
    Rule #2: The great thing about twin engined aircraft is, if one engine fails, the other engine always has just enough power to get you to the scene of the crash.

    Semper specto in clara parte vitae.

    .


  4. #4
    Captain MadamBreakneck's Avatar
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    Belgium/BelgiŽ/Belgique/Belgien here http://www.bulmf.be/index.php/en/#

    Population density 374.2/km2



    Back to just bimbling in the TST.

    No longer instructing - just pontificating..
    and now a Tai Chi instructor

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  6. #5
    Captain Gentreau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadamBreakneck View Post
    Belgium/BelgiŽ/Belgique/Belgien here http://www.bulmf.be/index.php/en/#

    Population density 374.2/km2
    Thanks Joan.

    Reflecting on your comments in the P&M thread, the figures for population density are useful-ish for explaining the difference in number of airfields between the UK and France, but don't necessarily reflect the real availability of land for airstrips.
    While the pop-dens of the UK is only twice that of France (England 4 times) what the figures don't indicate is the way France is organised.
    Built up areas are very clearly limited and separated by large rural areas, making more open land available as possible sites.
    Additionally there is the french attitude towards aviation, which is generally much more supportive.
    There are always NIMBYs who move into a area with an existing airfield and then complain about it (some of them ex-pats from the UK) but the way french society is organised means they are generally told to shut up or piss off if they don't like what the locals have been doing for years.

    It seems to me that the difference in numbers of pilots is much more cultural than practical, and can't just be explained by one measure.

    Quote Originally Posted by MadamBreakneck View Post
    Worth considering further, perhaps?

    UK 274 per km2
    France 123
    Belgium 376
    US 34
    Australia 3
    India 410

    Edited to add: England 407

    Source = Wikipedia, of course
    The three most useless things in aviation:
    • The air above you.
    • The runway behind you.
    • The fuel in the bowser.


    Rule #1: Always tie your aircraft to the largest heaviest object available. The planet Earth meets these requirements and is readily available in all locations.
    Rule #2: The great thing about twin engined aircraft is, if one engine fails, the other engine always has just enough power to get you to the scene of the crash.

    Semper specto in clara parte vitae.

    .


  7. #6
    Co-Pilot jetlag's Avatar
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    Other curious differences between our united Europe is I believe the ceiling for microlights in Spain and Italy is 1000' , I'm guessing AGL.
    F-JRIB LF1751 Corme Ecluse

    Today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday.

    Phil.

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  9. #7
    Wannabe Pilot Shadow's Avatar
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    "There are always NIMBYs who move into a area with an existing airfield and then complain about it (some of them ex-pats from the UK) but the way french society is organised means they are generally told to shut up or piss off if they don't like what the locals have been doing for years. "

    I experienced this some weeks ago in the local Maires office, 2 expats complaining about the noise from some microlights landing and taking off from nearby bellac. The clerk said more or less that what was said above Shut up ir Piss off. When they had recovered from the shock of literally being told to shut or piss off, they went into human rights evironmental and other issues. The same answer came back at them with the addition, the clerk explained she was also a pilot and pointed to me and said so is he. They then wanted to speak to the mayor who wasnt availble as he was at the airfield (on a freebie pleasure flight). The case was closed. They left muttering and grunting about the French. Now imagine the uproar if that happened in england.

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    Gentreau (10-07-19), jetlag (11-07-19), unwind-protect (10-07-19)


  11. #8
    Co-Pilot jetlag's Avatar
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    Viva La France. We are very fortunate to have the FFPLUM to represent us and fight our case, that is the case of the PILOTS not the manfacturers and legislators.

    Where are you based Shadow?
    Last edited by jetlag; 10-07-19 at 12:22 PM. Reason: last line
    F-JRIB LF1751 Corme Ecluse

    Today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday.

    Phil.


  12. #9
    Captain Randombloke's Avatar
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    In a previous thread I highlighted the conflict of interest in an association that has to represent members but earns money from the way its members are regulated. The FFPLUM does not suffer from this conflict.

    The same parallel exists in France and the UK with MOTs.

    A French MOT station is not allowed to fix cars. The tester advises you based on vehicle safety. He charges for a test, full stop.

    A UK MOT station that is also a garage will fail your car, then offer to fix the problems, and those problems may either be genuine, or an opportunity for them to line their pockets.

    In the same way, a UK association can't fight to have the unnecessary paperwork removed without suffering a revenue loss.

    With regard to the UK and inspections and so on, we are not necessarily better at maintaining stuff, but we are better at doing paperwork.

    An example would be the 912 Quantum upgrade to 200kg total pax, 110kg per seat. A placarding and purely paperwork exercise only.
    Steve U.
    PG, HG & microlights
    "Weekend bimbler, day to day car driver & genuinely undeserving Southern oik who has never done anything of any worth"

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  14. #10
    Co-Pilot Peter Twissell's Avatar
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    Steve is absolutely correct re. conflicts of interests, both with MOTs and the BMAA.
    So, what is the solution?
    If we begin by assuming that the CAA is unlikely to reduce the regulatory burden and annual inspections will remain, then the question becomes how to balance the interests of the BMAA's revenue against the interests of its members. One option might be to separate the functions of permits, mods etc. from the membership representation function. Ideally, the division dealing with permits, mods etc. would raise sufficient revenue to fund its own operation and overheads while the members side of things would raise revenue through subscriptions to fund its running, overheads, magazine (open to debate) and the business of representing members interests.
    I am writing this as a subject for discussion, not offering a fully formed solution to all the worlds problems.


    G-BZNP Still not dead


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