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  1. #21
    Co-Pilot Martin Watson's Avatar
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    Thanks Steve.
    So I'd say the difference between BMAA member numbers and FFPULM numbers isn't so surprising. As I said - BMAA is getting squeezed in the middle.
    Martin
    BMAA 5370
    Fixed wing instruction, examinations and revalidations in Norfolk.


  2. #22
    Co-Pilot jetlag's Avatar
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    The associations have to make it attractive for everyone to join, no-one will join just for the honour of being a member. Paul mentioned in a conversation last year that a major difference is that French pilots are proud if the FFPLUM and the work they do for their members. That is a huge difference, no names no pack drill, but, it seems that there are more negative comments than enough about the BMAA and LAA, it is a shame. When I lived in Blighty, even though I had a friend flying GA out of Sherburn and I visited frequently, never did I hear of Microlight aircraft, didn't know they existed till I came to France and thought "what is that bloody noisy machine" a flexwing.

    Spent many years in sales and the one true saying that we had was " blow you own trumpet before someone else uses it as a piss pot" ... Promote, promote, promote there is no other way to increase falling interest, open days, sports day, kit car shows, motorbike shows, rallies of any kind where an engine is involved. It take time, dedication and a lot of hard work, gladly for us over here that has already been done many years ago, it only rests on us to keep and increase the momentum. I am selling my trike and put an ad on Facebook and as Paul comment, rightly, there is no facility to import my machine into the GB market. Here, keep within the defined weight and power rules, declare it as a self build .... job done.

    Phil
    F-JRIB LF1751 Corme Ecluse

    Today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday.

    Phil.

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  4. #23
    Co-Pilot Martin Watson's Avatar
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    I made various attempts several years ago to convince the BMAA council of the truth of what Phil is talking about. I gave up after being ignored every time...
    The BMAA is superb at processing permit renewals. Other things, not so much.
    Martin
    BMAA 5370
    Fixed wing instruction, examinations and revalidations in Norfolk.


  5. #24
    Captain MadamBreakneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetlag View Post
    ...there is no facility to import my machine into the GB market. Here, keep within the defined weight and power rules, declare it as a self build .... job done.

    Phil
    That does, of course, apply to two-seaters, but single seaters don't have any airworthiness regulation beyond a requirement to keep a logbook and can be imported within the defined weight & stall speed rules (with as much power as you choose to fit) from wherever you wish. eg this on AFORS

    [load of stuff about BMAA deleted because that should be a different thread, I think]

    I'm not arguing that UK two-seater regulation is ideal, but how about comparing with Germany or the USA or New Zealand (this is a UK regulation v Rest of World thread after all) as well as with France.

    Joan



    Back to just bimbling in the TST.

    No longer instructing - just pontificating..
    and now a Tai Chi instructor


  6. #25
    Co-Pilot Peter Twissell's Avatar
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    So, it appears that the problem is this:
    BMAA membership subscription revenue is not sufficient to support the non-regulatory side of the organisation.
    The requirement for (and cost of) annual inspections is not about to go away.
    The relatively small number of members results in a relatively high cost per member to run the organisation.

    Thus the BMAA has some freedom to balance revenues from the regulatory and non-regulatory sides. As things stand, the choice has been made to keep subscription costs relatively low by subsidising with regulatory costs.

    It would require a substantial leap of faith for the BMAA to adjust that balance in order to create independence between the two (i.e. increasing subscription fees, reducing regulatory fees and removing the requirement for membership for those wishing to use the regulatory services).

    All the above brings us back to the conclusion that what the BMAA needs is a substantial increase in membership (thus reducing subscription fees), which in turn requires that membership is made more attractive.
    Some members have expressed on this forum that they feel 'locked in' because they have to be a member in order to get their PTF. I wonder whether those members would voluntarily join if they didn't have to.
    Perhaps there is room for another level of membership (associate or similar), for those casually interested, but not (yet) actively involved in flying?
    When I leave copies of Microlight Flying in the dentists waiting room, I expect several people with a passing interest will read them. I doubt that many if any will be inspired to fork out 80 to join just out of interest.
    G-BZNP Still not dead


  7. #26
    Captain Randombloke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Twissell View Post
    All the above brings us back to the conclusion that what the BMAA needs is a substantial increase in membership (thus reducing subscription fees), which in turn requires that membership is made more attractive.
    Some members have expressed on this forum that they feel 'locked in' because they have to be a member in order to get their PTF. I wonder whether those members would voluntarily join if they didn't have to.
    I've been an LAA member with no need to be, it lasted a year and I wouldn't do it again.

    I'm a BMAA member as I need a permit, but if my need for a permit went away but I was still flying anything microlight, I would remain a member of an association for representation. Currently, I'd choose the BMAA over the LAA, but it's a partly irrational decision.

    I think we need to give the BMAA & LAA some credit for doing a lot of airspace/medical/legal representation which doesn't conflict with their regulatory activities, the airspace side of it can be boring in the extreme and a lot of work but it does get done.

    Example - after some persuasion, the BMAA got involved with lobbying the CAA for an exemption to allow use of hand held radios without EASA certification in microlights. Without this we'd have all been coughing up four figures for panel mounts.

    However, as you say, there needs to be a perceived advantage to membership and a feeling of a two way street, rather than just being a "permit prisoner", as I call them.
    Steve U.
    PG, HG & microlights
    "Weekend bimbler, day to day car driver & genuinely undeserving Southern oik who has never done anything of any worth"

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  9. #27
    Airfield Ops Keith Nelson's Avatar
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    Hasn't the Grey imports subject been around for many a year? I am not convinced that the microlights in Europe are any different to the UK BCAR-S versions?

    What it does smack of is a protective wall being built around the BCAR-S versions so that there is a reason behind not accepting Johnny Foreigner versions in the UK.

    Why would the flexwing that jetlag has for sale not be suitable for use in the UK?
    Why are any of the ultralights advertised on the site Roger mentioned not be suitable for use in the UK?

    Commonsense really needs to prevail now........ I will raise a situation and lets see what logic gets applied by readers.

    Hyperthetically someone buys a Rans S6 503 from the French website Lebonsoin that is a two seater & tries to register & permit it in the UK, only to be told " Sorry, No can do !! "

    Having made the mistake of buying it & bringing it into the UK this person now has an unflyable ultralight because it can't be granted a UK Permit to fly because it isn't a UK version.

    However, some smartass tells him " remove the passenger seat & register it as a Rans S6 503 SSDR "
    Viola !!! the Rans S6 503 that he/she acquired in France is now miraculously airworthy because a bit of webbing has been removed and the CAA accept it as being safe to fly !

    Where's the logic in that?
    Keith Nelson
    ( Actively looking for a microlight to buy ).

    I stayed up all night to see where the sun went, and then it dawned on me.

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  11. #28
    Co-Pilot jetlag's Avatar
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    I was somewhat surprised, I thought Air Creation is recognised in GB. A well respected French manufacturer who sells worldwide ..... but .. not in the GB. Not saying that my little Trek GT is a stonking machine but the Tanarg is astounding, does this machine also, sit on the frontier looking longingly at the GB market?
    F-JRIB LF1751 Corme Ecluse

    Today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday.

    Phil.


  12. #29
    Co-Pilot Martin Watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Nelson View Post
    Hyperthetically someone buys a Rans S6 503 from the French website Lebonsoin that is a two seater & tries to register & permit it in the UK, only to be told " Sorry, No can do !! "

    Having made the mistake of buying it & bringing it into the UK this person now has an unflyable ultralight because it can't be granted a UK Permit to fly because it isn't a UK version.

    However, some smartass tells him " remove the passenger seat & register it as a Rans S6 503 SSDR "
    Viola !!! the Rans S6 503 that he/she acquired in France is now miraculously airworthy because a bit of webbing has been removed and the CAA accept it as being safe to fly !

    Where's the logic in that?
    Actually it's perfectly logical (assuming the aircraft meets the definition of a single seat microlight).
    The thing about SSDR is that the CAA is NOT accepting it as safe to fly. The CAA is saying that in the case of single seat microlights it is up to the owner/pilot to assure for themselves that it is safe to fly. Entirely their responsibility. Not the CAA's or the BMAA's or anybody else's.
    It's funny how few people really understand what SSDR means...
    Martin
    BMAA 5370
    Fixed wing instruction, examinations and revalidations in Norfolk.


  13. #30
    Co-Pilot Martin Watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetlag View Post
    I was somewhat surprised, I thought Air Creation is recognised in GB. A well respected French manufacturer who sells worldwide ..... but .. not in the GB. Not saying that my little Trek GT is a stonking machine but the Tanarg is astounding, does this machine also, sit on the frontier looking longingly at the GB market?
    Eh? There's plenty of Tanargs on the UK register. Quite nice (if you like flex wings .
    Martin
    BMAA 5370
    Fixed wing instruction, examinations and revalidations in Norfolk.


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