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  1. #31
    Captain Randombloke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Red_ View Post
    Have to agree Martin, uprating to SSEA is not complicated and gives access to the faster heavier aircraft, I have to say to me 600kg simply misses the whole point of what a microlight is.
    It will of course be a great benefit to those who want the weight allowance of an SSEA type but are unwilling/unable to get the rating, but I forsee increased regulation on the whole class as a result

    When the majority of the microlight manufacturing world is 600kg, (and a significant amount is already headed there) no one will make a small number of 472.5kg microlights for the most restrictive certification regime in the world. The rest of the microlighting world might miss the whole point of what a microlight is, but we will miss having the small choice we have now.

    As someone who has flown probably a fairly large weight range (sub 70 Snake up to 472.5 Hyper, on flex for example) I'd say that the weight difference is not as big a deal as it is being made out to be. Over 500kg? Here be dragons? When you convert down, wind loading and energy retention is an issue, but is complicated by ultra draggy fusetube types. Talk to me about energy retention for a 16:1 rigid wing HG, or a 32:1 sailplane.

    I fail to see why I need a rating for up to 2,000kg just to fly with another 120kg maximum, as a lot of the versions of microlights with the higher MAUW which are currently on a diet to be microlights would not go up to 600, but more likely somewhere between 500 and 560kg.

    BMAA stance is that the increase shouldn't come with more regulation.

    Even with the current rules no one is making Thrusters or AX2000s any more and the builds of new X-Airs I'm guessing have slowed to a trickle. So, holding everyone else back isn't going to lead to an evangelical moment where we all repent and go back to 390kg. Erasmus, Luther or Calvin? Free will or determinism?
    Steve U.
    PG, HG & microlights
    "Weekend bimbler, day to day car driver & genuinely undeserving Southern oik who has never done anything of any worth"

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  3. #32
    Trainee Pilot _Red_'s Avatar
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    Even with the current rules no one is making Thrusters or AX2000s any more and the builds of new X-Airs I'm guessing have slowed to a trickle. So, holding everyone else back isn't going to lead to an evangelical moment where we all repent and go back to 390kg. Erasmus, Luther or Calvin? Free will or determinism?
    Yea, but what have the Romans ever done for us?


  4. #33
    Trainee Pilot Trev C's Avatar
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    As someone who is bordering on the weight limit if there was an equally sized person in the passenger seat, then I look forward to the possible weight increase just to allow me to fly with a full tank of fuel.
    I am not overweight ( much ), I am 6`4" and built like the proverbial, I also could not afford to learn in anything other than a microlight ( which to be fair 12 months ago I thought was a kitey thing )
    So this possible weight increase does open up aviation to people who are just big like me


  5. #34
    Trainee Pilot _Red_'s Avatar
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    Fair Point about inclusivity Trev, Though I'm not certain there is much of a difference in training costs between a C42 and a Cessna 152 these days and if you factor in the likely price of new 600kg micros (they will come at premium prices be sure) then its quite likely you will find it more expensive to continue flying than if you had got the SSEA rating and bought a permit light aircraft, something like https://afors.com/aircraftView/47349


  6. #35
    Captain MadamBreakneck's Avatar
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    Trev,
    Most aircraft (even Cessnas, Europas or even A380) cannot carry full fuel and full cabin/cargo load! Microlights were different under the initial version of BCAR-S. It was subsequently amended to allow heavier loads to be flown by carrying less than full fuel load - in other words to be the same as other aircraft.

    Random,
    Of course, you are commenting on the 2-seater world. In the UK we have one of the world's most liberal airworthiness regimes with SSDR. Even the US FAR103 regulations are more restrictive.


    We could argue around this till the cows have come home, been milked, and gone to sleep.
    We probably will



    Back to just bimbling in the TST.

    No longer instructing - just pontificating..


  7. #36
    Trainee Pilot Trev C's Avatar
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    So what are the chances of existing aircraft, Skyrangers. C42s ETC. being upgraded to the higher weights?


  8. #37
    Co-Pilot Halibut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Red_ View Post
    Yea, but what have the Romans ever done for us?
    What's the aeroplane in your avatar pic, Red?


  9. #38
    Co-Pilot Martin Watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trev C View Post
    So what are the chances of existing aircraft, Skyrangers. C42s ETC. being upgraded to the higher weights?
    Not at all likely. That's not what this is all about.
    An existing aircraft has its weight limit. It's in it's documents.
    An older 390kg aircraft didn't magically become a 450kg one when the upper limit for micros became 450. Similarly, increasing to 600 doesn't magically mean you can fly your 450kg machine at a higher weight.

    NEW ones may be re-certified (if that's the right word) to a higher limit if the manufacturer chooses to do it.
    Martin
    BMAA 5370


  10. #39
    Captain Randombloke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadamBreakneck View Post
    Random,
    Of course, you are commenting on the 2-seater world. In the UK we have one of the world's most liberal airworthiness regimes with SSDR. Even the US FAR103 regulations are more restrictive.
    Joan,

    You're 100% right about this. However, it's still a very small market, and the weights have to have some overlap with what's sold elsewhere, for example, to ensure economic viability.

    Fortunately, the basic 300kg MAUW has a noticeable overlap with the German 120kg empty, for example, so we get aircraft capable of both markets.

    And to counter Marytin's point below, a lot of SSDRs were abe to increase their weight up to closer to the 300kg post dereg.


    Quote Originally Posted by Trev C View Post
    So what are the chances of existing aircraft, Skyrangers. C42s ETC. being upgraded to the higher weights?
    It's not a case of needing an upgrade for some, as they are already certified to a higher MAUW under another regime or in a different country with identical design and build. In these cases, it is arguably a paperwork exercise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Watson View Post
    Not at all likely. That's not what this is all about.
    An existing aircraft has its weight limit. It's in it's documents.
    An older 390kg aircraft didn't magically become a 450kg one when the upper limit for micros became 450. Similarly, increasing to 600 doesn't magically mean you can fly your 450kg machine at a higher weight.

    NEW ones may be re-certified (if that's the right word) to a higher limit if the manufacturer chooses to do it.
    You're right in that you can't automatically fly at a higher weight, whatever is in your HADS/TADS is legally binding.

    However, if the aircraft can take it, a paper exercise or modification can take your aircraft up in MAUW.

    Example 1 - 390kg Quantum to 409kg. So, a 390kg aircraft did not become 450kg but was able to get above 390kg. Factory mod IIRC.

    Example 2 - 90kg/seat in 912 Quantum up to 110kg/seat subject maximum pax load of 200kg. Needed the thicker seat frame steel tubing. Factory mod IIRC. Paperwork only. A real inspector may put me straight here, standby.
    Steve U.
    PG, HG & microlights
    "Weekend bimbler, day to day car driver & genuinely undeserving Southern oik who has never done anything of any worth"


  11. #40
    Captain Dave Morton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Watson View Post
    Not at all likely. That's not what this is all about.
    An existing aircraft has its weight limit. It's in it's documents.
    I believe the CT is an example whereas it can be flown at the higher weight of 600kg consisting of no more than a paperwork exercise, however the CT must first meet certain criteria, there's a couple at our place looking at this route
    G-HAMS a pretty quick Quik


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