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  1. #41
    Captain MadamBreakneck's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MadamBreakneck

    Random,
    Of course, you are commenting on the 2-seater world. In the UK we have one of the world's most liberal airworthiness regimes with SSDR. Even the US FAR103 regulations are more restrictive.

    Joan,

    You're 100% right about this. However, it's still a very small market...
    I'm thinking as a customer, it's nice to be able to have a UK factory, but it doesn't trouble me if we don't.
    There's plenty of competition for SSDR pilots' money.
    Last edited by MadamBreakneck; 12-01-20 at 14:54 PM. Reason: Formating, mostly



    Back to just bimbling in the TST.

    No longer instructing - just pontificating..
    and now a Tai Chi instructor


  2. #42
    Captain Roger Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Watson View Post
    Not at all likely. That's not what this is all about.
    An existing aircraft has its weight limit. It's in it's documents.
    An older 390kg aircraft didn't magically become a 450kg one when the upper limit for micros became 450. Similarly, increasing to 600 doesn't magically mean you can fly your 450kg machine at a higher weight.

    NEW ones may be re-certified (if that's the right word) to a higher limit if the manufacturer chooses to do it.
    My French AX3/Weedhopper with MYRO's (my old UK AX3) old 503 engine fitted is a 450kg machine over here


  3. #43
    Captain Randombloke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Mole View Post
    My French AX3/Weedhopper with MYRO's (my old UK AX3) old 503 engine fitted is a 450kg machine over here
    Yes, but when the AX3 was certified in the UK, the limit was 390kg. Having gone through the certification process, not exactly a fune experience, no one wanted to re-open the same.

    We could also argue that a declarative scheme is easier to get through than an investigative one, especially if the declaration is written by someone creative.

    However, with the declarative scheme, there's nothing to hide behind. With an investigative one, if compliance is 100%, then the problem is the poor certification.

    Having said that we may be saying the same about 600kg in 5 years time whilst France is settled on 500kg.
    Steve U.
    PG, HG & microlights
    "Weekend bimbler, day to day car driver & genuinely undeserving Southern oik who has never done anything of any worth"


  4. #44
    Co-Pilot Halibut's Avatar
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    What of the safety record of the S6 compared with other microlights? There was to be an investigation, I read, but I haven’t seen any follow up. Perhaps I'm not looking in the right place.
    It's an attractive aircraft and I'm hoping that, if there's a problem, there's a fix, too - whether that's a mod or a change to pilot behaviour. Could be a viable alternative to a Thruster, if so
    Last edited by Halibut; 11-02-20 at 16:05 PM.


  5. #45
    Captain Randombloke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halibut View Post
    There was to be an investigation, I read, but I haven’t seen any follow up. Perhaps I'm not looking in the right place.
    AAIB website...
    Steve U.
    PG, HG & microlights
    "Weekend bimbler, day to day car driver & genuinely undeserving Southern oik who has never done anything of any worth"


  6. #46
    Captain Randombloke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Mole View Post
    My French AX3/Weedhopper with MYRO's (my old UK AX3) old 503 engine fitted is a 450kg machine over here
    Just to pick up on this, the factory built AX3 was 390kg.

    Because we all exist in our little BMAA bubble, LOL, we thought the weight limit for the AX3 in the UK was 390kg.

    In fact, it's not. There's a kit built, 450kg AX3K on the LAA TADS, with a 582, or a 618.

    Only picked up on this because a friend has an AX3, but is an LAA member. Wondered how he got permits.

    Now I know...
    Steve U.
    PG, HG & microlights
    "Weekend bimbler, day to day car driver & genuinely undeserving Southern oik who has never done anything of any worth"


  7. #47
    Captain Roger Mole's Avatar
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    Steve, from memory I think that there are several actually, all on LAA 450kg permits, kit built with 582s. My memory may be playing tricks as it was quite a while ago that I was interested in collecting data on the fleet and although I still have my little French Weedhooper I've moved on quite a bit since then.

    When you think how popular the AX3 was for training it seems daft to me that it was ever registered in the UK as a 390kg aircraft with a 503 engine with all of the weight constraints that such a configuration presents. Mind you, I don't think that the BMAA has ever been famed as a forward looking, far-sighted organisation. Mind you, I recognise that some might disagree with that...

    Two shots from today's spruce-up for the new season and, hopefully, for a possible sale.



    Last edited by Roger Mole; 15-02-20 at 21:42 PM.


  8. #48
    Captain Randombloke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Mole View Post
    When you think how popular the AX3 was for training it seems daft to me that it was ever registered in the UK as a 390kg aircraft with a 503 engine with all of the weight constraints that such a configuration presents. Mind you, I don't think that the BMAA has ever been famed as a forward looking, far-sighted organisation. Mind you, I recognise that some might disagree with that...
    The other argument would be that people simply took the French route and ignored the weight constraint... does 500kg turn this on its head?
    Steve U.
    PG, HG & microlights
    "Weekend bimbler, day to day car driver & genuinely undeserving Southern oik who has never done anything of any worth"


  9. #49
    Captain Roger Mole's Avatar
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    No, because in order to be 'uprated' to 500kg an ULM's technical dossier needs to be amended by the manufacturer either, as will most likely be the case with the Savannah, as a formality with no mods necessary, or when mods are needed to strengthen the structure, by specifying what those mods are and then each individual ULM covered by the technical dossier being confirmed by its owner as having had the mods applied before they will be allowed to amend its reg doc to the new higher weight limit.

    Obviously this will never happen for what are referred to here as 'first generation' aircraft like the AX3 and probably also, I'd imagine the Xair, although I don't know for sure about the latter.


  10. #50
    Captain Randombloke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Mole View Post
    No, because in order to be 'uprated' to 500kg an ULM's technical dossier needs to be amended by the manufacturer either, as will most likely be the case with the Savannah, as a formality with no mods necessary, or when mods are needed to strengthen the structure, by specifying what those mods are and then each individual ULM covered by the technical dossier being confirmed by its owner as having had the mods applied before they will be allowed to amend its reg doc to the new higher weight limit.
    Sorry, I didn't explain that remark.

    With France taking a lower Annex I/II limit, and a lot of the EU already on or in transition to a higher (600kg) limit, this could make France more restrictive.

    This would mean some creative declaration, or a reduction in choice.

    Manufacturers would need to make a French 500/525kg version, which could be an uppgraded 472.5kg, or in the case of those with empty weights between 300 & 320kg (600kg may mandate a payload not below 280kg) tell some porky pies, or people fly overweight, so no progress compared to now. Maximum empty weight is now 337.5kg, so payload is 187.5kg. Long way from 280kg.

    No engines over 109 hp. No Edge, no 914, no 915.

    Stall speed 38 knots, aligned with no one, not 35knots, not 45knots.

    For flexwings, France becomes even more restrictive, with 450/475kg (no reserve/reserve) being the limits. Stall speed unchanged at 35 knots.

    OTOH, paramotors with their wing weights of 10-12kg get the same 475kg, with no stall speed.

    It's a bit of a bordel, isn't it?

    I understand the declarative process as I've visited two French manufacturers and been through it with them.
    Steve U.
    PG, HG & microlights
    "Weekend bimbler, day to day car driver & genuinely undeserving Southern oik who has never done anything of any worth"


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