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  1. #51
    Training Captain Gentreau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randombloke View Post
    Sorry, I didn't explain that remark.

    With France taking a lower Annex I/II limit, and a lot of the EU already on or in transition to a higher (600kg) limit, this could make France more restrictive.

    This would mean some creative declaration, or a reduction in choice.

    Manufacturers would need to make a French 500/525kg version, which could be an uppgraded 472.5kg..........
    Alternative view:
    It may be much easier for manufacturers to upgrade their existing 472.5 designs for 500/525 with perhaps some minor modifications, whereas a 600kg machine will almost certainly be a new design ....
    The three most useless things in aviation:
    • The air above you.
    • The runway behind you.
    • The fuel in the bowser.


    Rule #1: Always tie your aircraft to the largest heaviest object available. The planet Earth meets these requirements and is readily available in all locations.
    Rule #2: The great thing about twin engined aircraft is, if one engine fails, the other engine always has just enough power to get you to the scene of the crash.

    Semper specto in clara parte vitae.

    .


  2. #52
    Captain Roger Mole's Avatar
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    Ah OK. hmmm... it depends on where you see the French system heading to. Personallly I think that the 500kg limit will be purely temporary and is just a 'holding' position in order to protect the declarative system. I think it was a pretty silly thing to do actually because logic tells you that 'overweight' aircraft such as the Savannah have been flying and used for training without (airworthiness) incident for over 20 years within the current (declarative) system. So there was no need for a knee-jerk reaction and I doubt that Méreuze would have adopted such a position. In the event you are quite right. French manufacturers will not end up manufacturing two models - they'll be selling 'downrated' 600kg aircraft into their home market which will be nonsensical. The present FFPLUM president apparently has not seen this or maybe I'm totally wrong and he's playing a blinder and his present strategy will result in France eventually getting a 600kg limit by default AND keeping its declarative system once the dust has settled.

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  4. #53
    Captain Randombloke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gentreau View Post
    Alternative view:
    It may be much easier for manufacturers to upgrade their existing 472.5 designs for 500/525 with perhaps some minor modifications, whereas a 600kg machine will almost certainly be a new design ....
    Agreed.

    Some of them already exist as 560kg-ish, e.g. Skyranger, so the work is ready done, just paperwork.

    However, in the new regime, would you as a manufacturer concentrate on a 560kg current aircraft, or want to go the whole hog?

    It fragments the market and means more spares inventory. Lord knows, the UK has already done some sterling work to make sure that spares inventory for the UK is different.
    Steve U.
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    "Weekend bimbler, day to day car driver & genuinely undeserving Southern oik who has never done anything of any worth"


  5. #54
    Training Captain Gentreau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randombloke View Post
    Agreed.

    Some of them already exist as 560kg-ish, e.g. Skyranger, so the work is ready done, just paperwork.

    However, in the new regime, would you as a manufacturer concentrate on a 560kg current aircraft, or want to go the whole hog?

    It fragments the market and means more spares inventory. Lord knows, the UK has already done some sterling work to make sure that spares inventory for the UK is different.
    I'm thinking that the existing fleet can largely be uprated to 500/525 with little effort and that instantly makes a lot of aircraft (in France) legal to fly with sensible "ballast" and fuel loads.
    Clearly any new aircraft or significant upgrades would target the 600kg limit as there's no point doing the work twice.
    However in the short to medum-term there is a benefit to the French approach.

    As Roger says, it may be that Sebastien is playing a blinder by going for a 2-step approach in order to keep the declarative regime ..... A voir
    The three most useless things in aviation:
    • The air above you.
    • The runway behind you.
    • The fuel in the bowser.


    Rule #1: Always tie your aircraft to the largest heaviest object available. The planet Earth meets these requirements and is readily available in all locations.
    Rule #2: The great thing about twin engined aircraft is, if one engine fails, the other engine always has just enough power to get you to the scene of the crash.

    Semper specto in clara parte vitae.

    .


  6. #55
    Trainee Pilot PilotPete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gentreau View Post
    I'm thinking that the existing fleet can largely be uprated to 500/525 with little effort
    Although different numbers the same has occurred (as I understand) for the Quantum, with a MTOW 390Kgs some are uprated/graded to 409Kgs
    not a massive change, but from 472 > 500 is is a similar ~30kgs increase


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