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  1. #21
    Co-Pilot Martin Watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Mole View Post
    OMG why? You just need to do what is done in France when you sell an aircraft. You sign a form agreeing that it's airworthy and henceforth you accept all responsibility for it. What is this ridiculous UK mindset thing? NOTHING is ever possible, especially if some kind of change is involved.
    You misunderstand Roger. The proposal relates to using amateur built aircraft for abinitio training. It is proposed that the original builder is given an indemnity against subsequent litigation. The school wanting to use the aircraft has to find the original builder so that can happen.
    In effect, just what you say happens in France.
    Why do you always assume the worst of the UK approach?
    Martin
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  2. #22
    Training Captain Gentreau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Mole View Post
    OMG why? You just need to do what is done in France when you sell an aircraft. You sign a form agreeing that it's airworthy and henceforth you accept all responsibility for it. What is this ridiculous UK mindset thing? NOTHING is ever possible, especially if some kind of change is involved.
    Actually roger I think you mean "when you BUY an aircraft" it is then that the new owner declares the aircraft airworthy.
    The three most useless things in aviation:
    • The air above you.
    • The runway behind you.
    • The fuel in the bowser.


    Rule #1: Always tie your aircraft to the largest heaviest object available. The planet Earth meets these requirements and is readily available in all locations.
    Rule #2: The great thing about twin engined aircraft is, if one engine fails, the other engine always has just enough power to get you to the scene of the crash.

    Semper specto in clara parte vitae.

    .


  3. #23
    Training Captain Gentreau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Watson View Post
    ........ It is proposed that the original builder is given an indemnity against subsequent litigation. The school wanting to use the aircraft has to find the original builder so that can happen.
    In effect, just what you say happens in France.......
    Not quite what happens in France.
    In the case of the UK proposal, you would indemnify the original builder, but what about subsequent owners who may have worked on the aircraft ?
    What if the original builder cannot be found or has passed away?

    The intelligence in the French system is that each new owner declares in writing the airworthiness of the aircraft and accepts responsibility for it.
    So no need to find the builder to indemnify them, as responsibility always resides in the current owner.
    The three most useless things in aviation:
    • The air above you.
    • The runway behind you.
    • The fuel in the bowser.


    Rule #1: Always tie your aircraft to the largest heaviest object available. The planet Earth meets these requirements and is readily available in all locations.
    Rule #2: The great thing about twin engined aircraft is, if one engine fails, the other engine always has just enough power to get you to the scene of the crash.

    Semper specto in clara parte vitae.

    .


  4. #24
    Captain Roger Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gentreau View Post
    Actually roger I think you mean "when you BUY an aircraft" it is then that the new owner declares the aircraft airworthy.
    Of course I did, Clive, and thanks for pointing it out. In my defence I typed it out quickly while doing something else and didn't think about what I was typing beforehand.

    Martin, you really must stop allowing your prejudices and preconceived ideas about me and my motives to cloud your judgement before rushing in as the self-apponted gatekeeper and guardian of the UK microlight airworthiness oversight system to jump down my throat every time I post here on the forum.

    I've reread what I wrote, it says what I wanted to (bar the grammatical error that Clive kindly pointed out) and nowhere is any criticism of the UK system either stated or implied. How could there be - this aspect of the UK system is only at consultation stage and hasn't yet been implemented.

    I was replying to a possible legal problem with the CAA's proposal that the OP had raised (ie exposure of the original builder to potential litigation) and was merely suggesting how such a problem is dealt with in France where such a system already exists. Clearly you failed to grasp that before the red mist rose and your fingers hit the keyboard. I then went on to mention a general problem that I (yes I personally) perceive to exist in the UK arising from a no-can-do general mindset that is resistant to change. You may disagree with that but I fail to see how you could possibly have to link such comments to my 'criticising' the UK microlight system and what right you should have to attack me personally for holding such views.

    But let's get something clear once and for all. The mistake that you are making is that you think that I care about the UK system when actually I couldn't give a toss. I was in it for almost 50 years from when I first took up flying both Group As and microlights and was subject to it, just as you and all the other UK pilots are, warts and all. However, I have been out of it and flying in the fresh air of France for nearly 8 years now. I am the proud owner of 3 ultralight aircraft that I enjoy owning and flying within the French regime and subject to the freedoms that I enjoy immensely compared to the experiences I was subjected to in my last few years in the UK, freedoms that the likes of yourself could never comprehend unless you have had the experience of doing so.

    Have you? Have you ever flown for any length of time outside of the restrictions imposed by the UK bureaucracy? I don't know, have you even at all?

    If not FFS stop keep sniping at me because I happen to share my experiences, which apparently you resent, with others who I think might appreciate them. You may be the self-appointed gatekeeper of the UK system on which you depend for your livelihood and would therefore like to protect at all costs, but unless I'm mistaken, you sure as heck are not the gatekeeper of this forum.

    Best wishes and good flights.


  5. #25
    Co-Pilot Martin Watson's Avatar
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    Gotcha!
    Martin
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  6. #26
    Captain Randombloke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gentreau View Post
    The intelligence in the French system is that each new owner declares in writing the airworthiness of the aircraft and accepts responsibility for it.
    So no need to find the builder to indemnify them, as responsibility always resides in the current owner.
    Especially as it is the current owner who wishes to use it for training, so should make that call, and carry the can, or buy a factory build.
    Steve U.
    PG, HG & microlights
    "Weekend bimbler, day to day car driver & genuinely undeserving Southern oik who has never done anything of any worth"

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