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  1. #1
    New Member Hurtle's Avatar
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    Honest posting with exposure of aircraft and piloting problems.

    If thereís one thing Iím sure of itís this. Shared experience of both aircraft and pilot problems leads to safer flying.

    Iíd like to share my background then make an observation to be either agreed with or disclaimed. Your call!

    My background flying experience is GA in USA, LSA in Australia and then Ultralights in Phillipines. Iím Australian and I guess part American through living in the states, working with and marrying an American during the last two decades.

    What Iím puzzled about is seeing reluctance here to share the gritty information. The ďoh, I buggered that upĒ as relates to flying and aircraft. Now, Iím making a sweeping generalisation here which is of course ridiculous. Thereíll be all sorts of shades of gray.

    My concern started when reading the Skyranger posts. One individual had been castigated by other members of a syndicate for open discussion. I then started to look elsewhere and see holes where fact should be. Not always as mentioned previously. However, it seems to be there.

    Iíve also lived in the UK for some years and familiar with the touch the side of your nose to indicate a withheld fact or secret. Done in fun I understand. So, do I read and post with my usual candour or join the tread lightly folk? Iím unsure. Iíll poke around a bit and see what comes of this post. Itís a big deal really. It relates to both safety in the air through experience and conversely it relates to safety from being sued if somebody can track down your proven incompetence. I get the reluctance. One competes against the other. Which is winning here?


  2. #2
    Captain MadamBreakneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurtle View Post
    ... My concern started when reading the Skyranger posts. One individual had been castigated by other members of a syndicate for open discussion...
    Welcome to the Microlight Forum, Hurtle. Not afraid to jump un with both feet, eh? The Australian/American connection perhaps

    I'd be willing to engage in the conversation, but can you help me by pointing to the actual Skyranger posts that triggered your concern.

    I suspect we also ned to consider the differences between posting on a public forum and things being said face to face in a hangar or club room, or the local pub. There are many, many threads about how to express concern to another pilot - it's a bit easier, psychologically, for club chairmen or chief flying instructors to be forceful in their comments to a risky individual than it is for fellow pilots or guests.

    Maybe, in the end, we need to look simply at the accident record. Is it acceptable or not? With the current Covid-19 lock down the elapsed-time based record is going to indicate a significant increase in microlighting safety. What we should be discussing, surely, is how to avoid saving up the accidents to have them all at once when we're allowed to fly again.



    Back to just bimbling in the TST.

    No longer instructing - just pontificating..
    and now a Tai Chi instructor

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  4. #3
    Co-Pilot Peter Twissell's Avatar
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    Hi Hurtle,
    There are, as you say, many shades of grey around the subject of confessing our aviation sins. The BMAA magazine has a specific section for this purpose.
    One of the concerns with posting on a forum visible to the public is the impression given to those outside aviation. The general culture does not promote self criticism, quite the reverse. You only need to look at the tabloid press in this country to gauge the base level of tolerance to any apparent weakness in individuals and organisations.
    I come from an engineering background, where self criticism is not only encouraged, but is a key element of the process. When I write up a development program, it is just as important to accurately record every failure and mistake as it is to record the successes. More than once I have developed a new concept, based entirely on understanding a mistake in another design.
    So in short, yes, we do engage in confession, but this forum is not typically the confessional.
    G-BZNP Still not dead, but resting following engine failure.

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  6. #4
    Co-Pilot Aerial's Avatar
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    Welcome Hurtle. I don't broadcast my shortcomings to the world but have done to my fellow club members. I have never got myself into a position where I had to raise a Mandatory Occurrence Report (https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/...ety_Statistics) which would be confidential. There are 2 shades of gray for you!
    I agree with Peter's post regarding the general culture and I suppose we Brits aren't too much different to other nations in that respect. There are some nations where individuals go to great lengths to save face. In our General Aviation world I'd like to think that everyone is completely honest but that's an unrealistic expectation. The best we can hope for is to offer honesty as an individual and hope it is returned.

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  8. #5
    Captain Randombloke's Avatar
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    We've got CHIRP though...
    Steve U.
    PG, HG & microlights
    "Weekend bimbler, day to day car driver & genuinely undeserving Southern oik who has never done anything of any worth"


  9. #6
    New Member Hurtle's Avatar
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    Very thoughtful responses and I’m appreciative.

    Must admit I’d forgotten about cultural differences with regard to attacking a problem or indeed perceptions of politeness. Apologies. I’d probably have not written the above if I’d thought it out a bit further.

    I’m regularly confronted in USA with what I consider to be super aggressive confrontation and it’s normal. Example is Trader Joe’s. Your checkout person discusses your purchases in a loud voice. If they weren’t so damn good at interesting food I couldn’t face it. Walk into Famous Footwear and staff loudly welcome you. Exit and they’ll yell at you to have a nice day. I take a while each year to get back into the swing of this. My American wife is so loud her American family ask her to tone it down. Now I’m glad I’m not using my real name. I’ve also just realised I’m on a British site. You guys like Grand Designs. If you see an episode on the Australian version titled French Island that’s mine. Mrs Hurtle is lovely and isn’t overly loud on the show. As I mentioned it’s great to anonymously post��

    Back to By way of contrast I’m in Taiwan where problems can be circled and never actually pinpointed. My favourite was going with a factory boss and getting in his nice Audi with a cup of coffee. He never said a word. He exited the car and climbed into an old car which must be for just such an occasion. Not a word. I found out that secretaries can be told off here and when they leave the bosses office they haven’t a clue what they actually did wrong. It’s not mentioned....again, extreme examples but fun to point out.

    I’ll stick around and am considering finding the Taiwan site they launch ultralights from. Well, paragliding and I think ultralights. My Chinese speaking is okay, written is pretty bad so google translate helps. I had flown at Angeles in Phillipines. Met wonderful Brits and Aussies there. One fellow has a flight instruction school in UK and was super enthusiastic about the Skyranger. Really helped confirm I’d made the right choice. Can’t exit Taiwan for 2 to 3 months so have to adapt the same as you guys to our current reality. Stay safe.


  10. #7
    New Member Hurtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadamBreakneck View Post

    I'd be willing to engage in the conversation, but can you help me by pointing to the actual Skyranger posts that triggered your concern.
    http://www.microlightforum.com/showt...-our-Skyranger

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  12. #8
    Trainee Pilot _Red_'s Avatar
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    Long time no see


  13. #9
    Captain MadamBreakneck's Avatar
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    Hi again Hurtle (from a locked-down UK).

    I didn't read that Skyranger thread first time round. There are always two sides (or more) to a story, but I'd say that anonymous "Starship Skyranger" would be well advised to get out of that syndicate, especially given the somewhat conspratorial reported attitude of his new syndicate colleagues.

    I would hope that in the UK, any inspector would refuse to sign of the Permit to Fly inspection with that tank modification unless supported by full approval paperwork. Elsewhere, of course, the rules are different - as our French and East European correspondents would doubtless confirm.





    Back to just bimbling in the TST.

    No longer instructing - just pontificating..
    and now a Tai Chi instructor

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  15. #10
    Co-Pilot paultheparaglider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurtle View Post

    I’ll stick around and am considering finding the Taiwan site they launch ultralights from. Well, paragliding and I think ultralights.
    I have had the great pleasure of paragliding in southern Taiwan a few times at a site called Sai Cha. We used to stay in Pingtung and get a car there daily. The flying can be really good there.

    The people are extremely friendly. As an example, one time I bombed out a few miles from take off in a river bed. I packed up and walked to the road when almost immediately I was picked up by a chap in a 4x4. He couldn't speak any English, and I couldn't speak any Taiwanese Mandarin, other than to say good day and thank you. He was, though, clearly offering me a lift back to take off as he recognised the gear. Two minutes later, and we are stopping at a shop and he is thrusting bottles of water in my hand, and he then drove me many miles up a winding road to the launch site. I thanked him as best I could, and then after he had left I found out from some English speaking locals that he was actually the local chief of police. Anyway, they are all like that there. Friendly and welcoming. I'd love to make it back there one day. There are a number of other good sites up nearer to Taipei if you are based there that I haven't flown, but I'm sure you would get an equally good welcome.

    As for paragliding safety in Taiwan, let's just say you will come away with lots of good stories to tell that nobody who hasn't been there would ever believe.

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