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  1. #1
    Captain Bob T's Avatar
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    Interesting times for engines

    I have been in contact with PPD Gemini, the people who are developing a 3 cylinder, 6 piston, 2 stroke diesel engine for aviation use. With 100 hp and just a little more weight than a Rotax 912S it should be quite a sensation.
    Imagine flying around and burning 6 litres or less an hour rather than 9 on red diesel, (it can be used for none road use) at 60 pence per litre.
    Not much use to BMAA registered machines, but they are also planning a 60 and 75 hp lighter diesel, at 59 and 45 kgs.
    They also have "In Mogas engines, we have a 68kg 90HP twin boxer engine ready for sale that is a direct replacement for a Rotax 912S and also a little 34Kg twin that produces 50hp @4800 rpm.". These will be very interesting and a website will appear soon.


  2. #2
    Co-Pilot micromikeuk's Avatar
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    Yes it would be nice for someone to break the Rotax hold but i think it will be difficult the main factor will be cost /reliability/back up hard to prove in the quick term ..Mark Jones of Galaxy microlights is having a bit of a hard time convincing people to part with cash for the UL260i engine which is very nice, fuel injected and so on but a bit unproven yet ,it will take some brave people to buy/fit them and see what happens ..

    Mike
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  3. #3
    Captain Bob T's Avatar
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    Mike, I wish Mark Jones all the best with the UL260 engines, but for me at the same price as, and not too different from the Rotax 912S, I probably would not consider that engine for a long time.
    A 3 cylinder 2 stroke diesel should be as smooth as a 6 cylinder 4 stroke and is different enough to be of huge interest, but we will see what the pricing turns out to be. The reduced running and maintenance costs of the diesel are something that the UL260 does not have over the 912s.
    I would also prefer to have a tank of diesel below my bum in an accident, than a tank of petrol.


  4. #4
    Co-Pilot micromikeuk's Avatar
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    Yes i agree diesel is the way to go and it would be very nice to run around on red diesel but would suspect they would make us put jet a1 in it which is not cheap ,but i think overall price will be a big factor ,and yes with the UL260i engine near the price of rotax i would go for rotax

    Mike
    Cheers Mike

    In life those that know don't speak and those that speak don't know.


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    For all your training needs Chattris/Boston airfield http://aaa-microlight.co.uk/
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  5. #5
    Captain Bob T's Avatar
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    The Gemini will run on diesel or Jet A1, so either would be OK. I thought that Jet A1 was cheaper than mogas in the UK, I could be wrong.


  6. #6
    Captain andy dixon's Avatar
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    jet a1 is about 59p per litre
    diesel trains in the uk are 2 stroke and they are good on reliability.........i would be happy to trash the rotax for a diesel, the low tempriture waxing of diesel seems to be a thing of the past so don't see a problem !
    disclaimer....as per 2010 European libel act....these are my thoughts only and may not represent the thoughts or actions of any person /company/group/manufacturer named in this article/Internet posting


  7. #7
    Captain andy dixon's Avatar
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    64p per litre for good quality jet a1 , red diesel engine 32 sec burn is 34p per litre or about 70p at the pump
    disclaimer....as per 2010 European libel act....these are my thoughts only and may not represent the thoughts or actions of any person /company/group/manufacturer named in this article/Internet posting


  8. #8
    Captain Bob T's Avatar
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    I have been doing a bit more research on this. It seems that the company are also designing a 2 cylinder 2 stroke diesel and have supplied me with some figures. It produces 60 bhp and weighs just 2.3 kgs more than a Rotax 582 with a B type gearbox and electric start.
    Assuming that the 582 burns 14 litres of petrol at 1 per litre, a 70 hour flying year would cost around 1069 in fuel and oil.
    The diesel using red diesel at 60 pence per litre would cost about 381 in fuel for the same 70 hours flying.
    There is also a 75 hp version of the engine, but I have not yet worked anything out for that.


  9. #9
    Captain Bill Scott's Avatar
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    "34Kg twin that produces 50hp @4800 rpm" That is very interesting, perhaps as a subsititute for the Rotax 447/503 ? If it weighs no more installed than a 503 I could get excited as it could be a viable engine for the many 390kg machines out there. I shall follow this with interest.

    Edit: Ah, just read the first post again and realised that's a MOGAS engine. Still, if it's 4stroke, maybe. Also, the 75hp diesel is interesting for microlight applications.
    Last edited by Bill Scott; 05-03-10 at 18:10 PM.


  10. #10
    Captain Bob T's Avatar
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    I will do the figures for the 75 hp engine this weekend and see how it comes out.
    I used the 60 hp as a comparison to the 582 because a 582 has a narrow power band when compared with a diesel, so at most throttle openings the 60 hp diesel would produce more power than the 65 that the 582 produces. The money figures in my last post were only taking into account fuel and oil. Servicing costs would also play a huge part in the overall running costs. I believe that the Rotax 2 strokes need a crankshaft change at 300 hours. I have just had an email saying that the diesel engine is designed to have a 2000 hour TBO.
    Can anyone tell me what a 300 hour service with crank change costs for a 582?
    Does anyone know what the new price of a 582 is?


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