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  1. #1
    Trainee Pilot pastorsteve's Avatar
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    GT450 landing fast

    Hey everyone,
    got some lovely hrs in yesterday and today in my new (new to me that is) GT450, but I have a question that I hope doesn't make me look too stupid.

    I learned initially in a GT450, then for a few hrs in a Quantum and finished in a QuikR, and am generally used to P&M 'floating' wings on the first and last planes especially. Pushing the bar out bit by bit, the plane slows down significantly resulting in nice slow touchdowns after a float across the ground.

    But my GT450 doesn't float and noticeably slow down (or hasn't in the last 2 days which is all the time i've had flying her). She comes in at a normal-feeling speed, and whilst pushing the bar forward has the effect of keeping her off the ground for a short while, she touches down way earlier than I expect and at significantly higher speed than I am used to. They're gentle touchdowns, and bar almost to the strut each time... but they're fast. I can't tell you what the MPH is as i'm not exactly looking at that whilst thinking 'please slow down!'.

    All other flying characteristics seem fine and normal (superb in fact). Could it be that the trim is out of calibration? Could the complete lack of wind in the last 2 days make THAT much difference to what i'm used to?

    Any suggestions welcome.
    Cheers,
    Steve


  2. #2
    Co-Pilot simon160567's Avatar
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    i dont know whether this helps but when i first started to learn to fly in a gt450 we had an approach speed of 60mph and now in the quantum i fly its very similar.
    oh by the way i`m still a student pilot if thats anything to go by.
    simon.


  3. #3
    Captain Bob T's Avatar
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    I think that you just have to practice, practice and practice. If it floats too much and you are using a short strip (mine is 200 meters) then aim for a landing point a bit back from the point that you want to touch down. If you are two up with plenty of fuel then the inertia of a 450kg machine will carry you further as it won't slow as quickly. I am no longer a student, but I am still learning after 17 years of flying flexwings.


  4. #4
    Trainee Pilot pastorsteve's Avatar
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    You're right Bob in that I was flying 2 up and with a full tank. At the airfield where I learned the tanks were normally a quarter full, so definitely a few extra KG in fuel weight. I'm happy if it's just things like that, and I'll get used to it I'm sure.


  5. #5
    Co-Pilot marilyn's Avatar
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    Hi Steve,
    I hope you enjoy your GT450 - you and I chatted on the phone when you advertised looking for a Tanarg. Our first microlight was a GT450 and we loved her like she had a beating heart. These cold bright winter days are perfect for flying - dense still air, zero thermals ... the best person to talk to is your instructor of course - and there's nothing wrong with the idea of putting him/her in the back for a half hour of circuits (I'm sure you thought of that!)

    Training at Wanafly this last summer in a Quik, the landing technique is necessarily plenty of speed on short final on a Quik which can easily be bled off as you float those last moments above the runway ... "speed is control" is the mantra I was taught. Everything needs airspeed to
    fly of course - watching an A380 from the Tower at Manchester recently, her slow gait down the runway must be an optical illusion! What a sweet sound her engines make.

    I hope you and your Rotax have many happy hours in the beautiful skies above England's s-w. I hope to see you somewhere sometime.


  6. #6
    Co-Pilot Carl Bayliss's Avatar
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    You mention the trim being out of calibration, trim gauges on earlier Quik/GT450 trikes do tend to go out of calibration quite often, then the potentiometer in the motor gives up working properly which means the trim gauge either doesn't move or hardly moves, hence P&M changed the potentiometers on later trim motor setups.

    If your trim motor has a big blue round potentiometer on the very back of the silver bracket then it is a later type, if not it is an earlier type with the less reliable potentiometer. I have just changed mine for the latest type which requires either buying a bracket (and potentiometer) from P&M or making your own bracket and buying the potentiometer from RS components. http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/produc...633D4E4F4E4526

    I tend to adjust my base bar to a hand span from the front strut before take off which sets me up at 60mph (it is what we teach our students as a back up to the gauge) then obviously when coming in to land, I ignore the gauge, set my speed up at 60mph (if I'm solo and fairly calm I go for 55mph) by hand then use the trim to take the pressure away. The gauge is an instrument and just like the rest of them on the dash, can tell you porkies!

    Also check that the static pipe has not been removed from the back of the ASI (will make asi over read by upto 10mph) and make sure the small black static plate (on the left as you sit in the trike, running along the line of the screen bolts) has the upward bend towards the back of the trike, this is used to calibrate the asi, some turn it through 90 degrees or even the wrong way which makes the asi read faster.
    Carl Bayliss
    GT450


  7. #7
    Co-Pilot La Goele's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pastorsteve View Post
    All other flying characteristics seem fine and normal (superb in fact). Could it be that the trim is out of calibration? Could the complete lack of wind in the last 2 days make THAT much difference to what i'm used to?
    Steve
    Hi Steve , yes the worth situation for landing is when there is no wind, it makes a big difference
    People complain : it is more than forty degrees celsius in the shade ... but who obliges them to stay in the shade
    Judging by the shape of the pyramids, we know that even in antiquity, workers had a tendancy to do less and less


  8. #8
    Test Pilot Paul Dewhurst's Avatar
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    Steve

    If you are holding off and not letting it land until the bar is close to the front strut, then you will be landing close to min speed for the wing. Stall speed is similar to a quantum so if fully held off so will the touchdown speed.

    GT has more energy retention than the quantum, which means it will take longer to bleed the speed off during the hold off period, which can result in landing fast if you aren't patient with it and take the time to fully hold off so bar is close to front strut for touchdown. This is exacerbated if you come in fast - so speed comtrol final iis more critical in a GT than a quantum. Especially if landing on a short strip where it is all too easy to dispense with holding off and put it on the floor because of rapidly approaching far hedge.

    At the risk of patronising - we have had very light winds this weekend - are you sure you are not just calibrated to blowy autumn winds where your touchdown groundspeed is far less?

    Caught out one of mates who put his machine through the far hedge ion Sunday...

    Paul


  9. #9
    Co-Pilot La Goele's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by La Goele View Post
    Hi Steve , yes the worth situation for landing is when there is no wind, it makes a big difference
    sorry for the mistake I meant WORST situation ...
    People complain : it is more than forty degrees celsius in the shade ... but who obliges them to stay in the shade
    Judging by the shape of the pyramids, we know that even in antiquity, workers had a tendancy to do less and less


  10. #10
    Founding Member - See my blog entries for help using the forums VinceG's Avatar
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    Steve, I think it's just down to your landing in zero wind that we've been enjoying lately. Under normal circumstances you would land into wind.

    I noticed it myself when flying a quik at the weekend. It didn't want to get airborne.
    Happy Safe Flying
    May your Landings = Your Take Offs
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