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Thread: Nynja Panels

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    Co-Pilot Riggers's Avatar
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    Nynja Panels

    I'm getting closer to doing my Nynja panel. As I've said elsewhere, its binnacle design is for me the PITS, in an otherwise masterpiece. Bit like a wart on the Mona Lisa, I suppose, but hey, y'all know I NEVER complain. Anyway, I've come up with a million compromises to produce the layout below. It consists of 3 banks, from left to right:

    i. Flying instruments and other stuff which I use when I'm getting tense;

    ii. Navigation stuff, in the form of an iPad mini running SD, hopefully close enough so I can read or at least understand what I'm about to hit;

    iii. Engine stuff, which is sent, obviously straight from God, to confirm the reassuring noise of a happy motor.

    Some of the compromises:

    1: No compass, so it'll have to go in the overhead, where the cockpit tubes meet. Be handy when I'm looking up, seeking divine intervention.

    2: No GPS, which will have to go, er somewhere else, when I can think of where to stick it. [Now, don't be rude]

    3: No room for any other serious stuff; mind you, at least I can put my monogrammed slippers, with the pipe, in the colour-coordinated entertainment receptacles, for half time.

    QUESTIONS:

    I know at least one expert has found the Nynja panel a challenge and enjoyed it so much he did it twice....

    i. Unfortunately, 3 instruments are full size: how close dare I go to the edge of that bl**dy tapered binnacle? I looked at a Winter 50mm VSI, to save some space, but it's calibrated in m/sec. No wonder they tell us to avoid gliders...

    ii. How close dare I bunch the instruments, without jeopardising the material? What is it, anyway - looks like carbon fibre on the front, but fibreglass at the rear?

    iii. How difficult is the material to work? The experimental Boscombe Jaguar carbon fibre wing, complete with its LERX roots, was a pig to work & repair.


    G-TIDY Panel Ver 0.1a.jpg
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    Last edited by Riggers; 16-04-14 at 21:05 PM.


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    Trainee Pilot CT Aviation's Avatar
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    Phil, where you have the VSI may be an issue with the throttle linkage and don't forget there are brackets around the edge for mounting and securing the shrouds.
    the carbon is very very thin on the facia and care has to be excercised not to chip it.
    mines up for final inspection on Saturday, engine runs, carb balance and fuel flow to complete tomorrow. Then I have to find some suitable carpet ( undecided between Axminster or something cheap and light weight.
    back to your panel, I'd make a thin ply panel, fit all the instruments and see if it fits and misses shroud and throttle etc.
    chris ( by no means an expert on anything, it's all about learning)


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    Captain jjones's Avatar
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    Co-Pilot goflygaz's Avatar
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    That does look like a lot of dials in a small space.have you already bought the instruments?

    If not why not consider the MGL stuff
    http://www.parts4aircraft.com/PBSCCa...&PBCATName=MGL XTreme - mini EFIS and mini EMS

    much lighter and more compact, or keep the analogue flying instruments and just have the electronic engine monitoring?
    Roads?...Where we're going....We Dont Need Roads!


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    Co-Pilot Riggers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CT Aviation View Post
    Phil, where you have the VSI may be an issue with the throttle linkage and don't forget there are brackets around the edge for mounting and securing the shrouds.
    the carbon is very very thin on the facia and care has to be excercised not to chip it.
    mines up for final inspection on Saturday, engine runs, carb balance and fuel flow to complete tomorrow. Then I have to find some suitable carpet ( undecided between Axminster or something cheap and light weight.
    back to your panel, I'd make a thin ply panel, fit all the instruments and see if it fits and misses shroud and throttle etc.
    chris ( by no means an expert on anything, it's all about learning)
    Chris,

    Thanks for this:

    i. I feared the VSI might cause problem; JJ's 57mm VSI might address that - thanks JJ!

    ii. Good luck with the final inspection, but I know you won't need it.

    iii. Amazed to hear you haven't carpeted it yet - I did it before fitting the floor, although I suspect technically, it doesn't need to be included in the weighing, if it's detachable, and it must add a fair lump to that. Paul D cites reduced weight as a benefit of the Nynja binnacle over the Swift round top dash. He's correct, of course, but when I have to add carpet to cover all that exposed firewall area, I suspect the case might not be so clear. I might velcro it on, when I get there.

    iv. So, it IS carbon fibre, then, and not some clever silk screen printing technique, or similar. Simple question: did you cut/drill from the front or the back? I was proposing to cover the whole of the front surface with masking tape as reinforcing protection, prior to machining from the front. On the Jaguar carbon wing I mentioned, the repair teams at Abingdon had to develop new repair techniques, using dagger drills & other exotica. CF is not pleasant stuff and it's got some negative aspects, which need(ed) thinking about, eg U/V, rainwater, and others. That was based on early 90s experiences of the stuff; maybe the problems have now been overcome.

    v. The plywood mock up is a good idea, if a bit time consuming, but 'time spent on reconnaissance is seldom wasted', as the military would say.

    Phil


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    Co-Pilot Riggers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goflygaz View Post
    That does look like a lot of dials in a small space.have you already bought the instruments?

    If not why not consider the MGL stuff
    http://www.parts4aircraft.com/PBSCCa...&PBCATName=MGL XTreme - mini EFIS and mini EMS

    much lighter and more compact, or keep the analogue flying instruments and just have the electronic engine monitoring?

    GfG: Thanks for the suggestion & the link.

    I looked, early on, at the MGL stuff and was quite impressed; however, the price, complexity and my fear of electrickery put me off. Additionally, there's the 'eggs in one basket' aspect to consider.

    I can't yet get a radio to work, so I think I'll have more than I can cope getting that and the transponder!


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    It's all personal opinion, but I'd move the iPad up slightly and move the radio and transponder down to the space where the slip indicator is. This would allow access from both seats.

    The slip indicator can then go up where the radio and transponder were.
    Steve Turnbull
    Flexwing Pilot
    Broadmeadow Flying Club
    G-MYTY


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    Co-Pilot Riggers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveTurnbull View Post
    It's all personal opinion, but I'd move the iPad up slightly and move the radio and transponder down to the space where the slip indicator is. This would allow access from both seats.

    The slip indicator can then go up where the radio and transponder were.
    Steve,

    My slip indicator is probably gets used the least on my panel: I don't have much success in getting a centred ball PLUS the aircraft going in the required direction at the same time! As a result, I make little reference to it - there's too much else going on.

    IF they work, the radio & transponder will require frequent adjustment, requiring the most detailed attention to their displays when resetting. For that reason, I've put them closest to me & the natural eyeline when looking out.

    As you suggest, personal preference, I suppose.
    Last edited by Riggers; 17-04-14 at 15:18 PM.


  9. #9
    Test Pilot Paul Dewhurst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riggers View Post
    I'm getting closer to doing my Nynja panel. As I've said elsewhere, its binnacle design is for me the PITS, in an otherwise masterpiece. Bit like a wart on the Mona Lisa, I suppose, but hey, y'all know I NEVER complain. Anyway, I've come up with a million compromises to produce the layout below. It consists of 3 banks, from left to right:

    i. Flying instruments and other stuff which I use when I'm getting tense;

    ii. Navigation stuff, in the form of an iPad mini running SD, hopefully close enough so I can read or at least understand what I'm about to hit;

    iii. Engine stuff, which is sent, obviously straight from God, to confirm the reassuring noise of a happy motor.

    Some of the compromises:

    1: No compass, so it'll have to go in the overhead, where the cockpit tubes meet. Be handy when I'm looking up, seeking divine intervention.

    2: No GPS, which will have to go, er somewhere else, when I can think of where to stick it. [Now, don't be rude]

    3: No room for any other serious stuff; mind you, at least I can put my monogrammed slippers, with the pipe, in the colour-coordinated entertainment receptacles, for half time.

    QUESTIONS:

    I know at least one expert has found the Nynja panel a challenge and enjoyed it so much he did it twice....

    i. Unfortunately, 3 instruments are full size: how close dare I go to the edge of that bl**dy tapered binnacle? I looked at a Winter 50mm VSI, to save some space, but it's calibrated in m/sec. No wonder they tell us to avoid gliders...

    ii. How close dare I bunch the instruments, without jeopardising the material? What is it, anyway - looks like carbon fibre on the front, but fibreglass at the rear?

    iii. How difficult is the material to work? The experimental Boscombe Jaguar carbon fibre wing, complete with its LERX roots, was a pig to work & repair.


    G-TIDY Panel Ver 0.1a.jpg
    If you wanted to make it look a bit less cluttered the i pad could go up quite a bit and make some space under earth. Also the fuse box doesn't need to go on the panel - you could put it inside, or swap its for a row of circuit breakers. a small VSI as mentioned would also make the gaps bigger and perhaps give more symmetry with the other instruments. We did that with our swift 2 panel.

    Getting the compass out of the panel is usually a good plan - otherwise they always have big deviation from the electric guages and gadgets - iPad is quite bad in that regards - on our Swift 2 we have a pedestal compass on the top of the panel in the centre and it swings it off 10-15 degrees. So overhead is probably best plan anyway.

    There is advice for cutting the holes in the manual, but don't forget cut inside the marks and open up to them carefully. Don't sand forwards and backwards or that can chip the edges if you are a bit aggressive - best to sand around the circumference. A black marker pen works well to leech colour into the edges and not leave any light bits so it doesn't show if you have made the holes just a bit big in places.

    The material is carbon faced Glassfibre - much less effort to work than 100% Glassfibre. No problem putting the instruments as close together as the backsides will physically allow.

    domt forget to allow for the choke cable run - but you could move that around a bit if necessary, or use a Bowden cable with pull and twist knob ( mini choke cable) to take the run around some curves.

    chris's advice to make a dummy panel out of ply or similar is a good one. It doesnt take too long and allows you to ensure all fits, and to sit in and see the layout and decide on any changes before it is too late.

    as regards carpet up the firewall, lots of owners haven't fitted it - or just a small bit at the top - if you do a neat job of putting on the firewall foam sheet it does the job - and remember that with the Side pockets on, they and the panel cover most of the firewall that you can see.

    You say no room for GPS - but isn't that what the iPad has superseded with the fabulous Skydemon, or do you want two? If its another for standby then carrying it pre programmed as baggage is probably a good plan - not sure I have ever seen a microlight with two installed in the panel itself!

    if you want a bigger panel it would be fairly simple to make a wider one - all that would need changing apart from the fascia ( which could be substituted to Ali) is a wider centre portion where the panel sides join. If you wanted it taller as well, that also could be done fairly simply - cut the sides down their length on the sides and add a fillet where it will be hidden by the side pockets. The beauty of homebuilding and the Nynja panel not being part of any carry though structure is that changes like this are really very simple to do and tailor things to your own personal nirvana. I have already had several people go the other way and fit electronic displays and cut the panel down smaller.

    Paul


  10. #10
    Co-Pilot Riggers's Avatar
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    Thanks, Paul: lots of good stuff in your generous response.

    I'm not quite at the panel stage, yet, but getting closer. I've just spent a fruitless day & a half trying to get the tail controls rigged without the cables rubbing either themselves or the fibreglass; having only half succeeded on the latter bit, I've given up for now and I'm doing the engine plumbing to boost morale.

    Dunno what to do now with the panel... anyone know how to get to the place in the picture?


    Phil

    Sh-creek.jpg


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